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Topic: in a 5-4 decision (Read 1261 times) previous topic - next topic

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in a 5-4 decision
dunno if we have a thread for the tidal wave of judicial reaction that's locked in for the rest of our natural lives but let's just start one here.



Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #1
unironically support reviving FDR's court-packing scheme. it was the only thing that broke the original Lochner era.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #2
dunno if we have a thread for the tidal wave of judicial reaction that's locked in for the rest of our natural lives but let's just start one here.




Am I correct in assuming this means employers can entirely ban unions or the creation of unions, or at least make them even less effective than they currently are in the US?

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #3
if i understand it correctly it just means they're allowed to make you waive your right to participate in a class action suit as a condition of employment. unions as entities exist in part to shape what those conditions are. so if the employer has that clause in your contract, then it's enforceable, but that's separate from whether a union negotiated a contract without it.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #4
unironically support reviving FDR's court-packing scheme. it was the only thing that broke the original Lochner era.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #5
Not exactly, though that's essentially coming for public sector unions later this summer when they hand down the Janus ruling!

Unions can still form and collectively bargain employment contracts which, if there were a half-decent union, wouldn't have these arbitration clauses. But only something like 10% of the American workforce is unionized, so most people are screwed. What this means is that, just like for most of your commercial/consumer transaction agreements, companies can block your access to the court systems, instead forcing you into private arbitration which typically favors the companies. Further, by blocking class action from even being possible, it means they can run large-scale but individually low-impact frauds and crimes with little fear of ever being held accountable.

AT&T v Concepcion already did this for commercial/consumer transactions a few years back.

if i understand it correctly it just means they're allowed to make you waive your right to participate in a class action suit as a condition of employment. unions as entities exist in part to shape what those conditions are. so if the employer has that clause in your contract, then it's enforceable, but that's separate from whether a union negotiated a contract without it.

not just your class action rights but your access to the court system all together.

The Federal Arbitration Act needs to be repealed.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #6
kinda wild how corporations have just created their own private justice system and no one cares

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #7
Parties mutually agreeing to settle disputes outside of the court system with an independent arbitrator isn't inherently bad.

But lol if you don't think the power imbalances in America in 2018 don't massively tilt that "mutual agreement" in favor of wealthy individuals and corporations.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #8
Too dumb, too entertained, to care. :(

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #9
the rich and big business in this country have done a pretty good job of getting the middle and working class to hate themselves and each other.  most people's salaries are stagnant or falling, and somehow the bad guys in all this are always other people in the same boat, rather than the ones getting rich screwing them.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #10
i feel like that whole formulation only really holds up of your conception of "working class people" is "white people with crappy houses."

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #11
I feel like mass riots and burning cities is the inevitable outcome of the current American trajectory.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #12
i feel like that whole formulation only really holds up of your conception of "working class people" is "white people with crappy houses."
I feel like you only really hold up if you shut the hell up

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #13
I feel like mass riots and burning cities is the inevitable outcome of the current American trajectory.

we are on track to party like it's 1899

motherfuckers want to talk about class warfare, well the days are coming when unions are going to have to form militias again

  • nesb
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #14
A corporate executive has more than 100,000 calories in total. Assuming a 2,000 calorie diet, that means a corporate executive could provide 50 days worth of sustenance if eaten.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #15
A corporate executive has more than 100,000 calories in total. Assuming a 2,000 calorie diet, that means a corporate executive could provide 50 days worth of sustenance if eaten.

big if true

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #16
I feel like mass riots and burning cities is the inevitable outcome of the current American trajectory.

we are on track to party like it's 1899

motherfuckers want to talk about class warfare, well the days are coming when unions are going to have to form militias again
Problem is electronic surveillance makes resisting a very different kind of game than it was in 1899.

Eta: that said, yeah. That's what looks like is coming down the pike.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #17
so this doesn't exactly fit the mold but


Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #18
SCOTUS will be vacated when the revolution comes, so :dunno:

  • uncool
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #19


More a punt than a decision; doesn't decide if the law itself impinged on first amendment rights, but says the process itself, in the way it was carried out, did.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #20
Conservatives will still reference the Thomas/Gorsuch opinions to justify civil rights violations in the future. Realistically what this should make clear is that assassinating conservative judges is now justified.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #21
iirc opinions that go beyond what the ruling actually holds are supposed to be given lower weight.  they are still considered to have "probative value" or something like that, but are not considered that much better than nothing.

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #22
This ruling is dumb but pretty narrow and kinda toothless.  The bigger problem is that people are terrible about interpreting case law and legal reporting is terrible, so conservatives are going to look at the headlines and use this an excuse to validate and encourage discrimination by business owners. 

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #23
Yeah but in many (most?) states is perfectly legal to discriminate against LGBT

Re: in a 5-4 decision
Reply #24
Yes, but these are test cases for future legislation, such as attacks on anti LGBT discrimination laws in blue states, and "religious freedom" legislation in red states