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Topic: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution (Read 3749 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • socrates1
Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
  • Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 08:02:10 AM by socrates1

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #1
Quote
The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.
"This conclusion is very surprising, and I fought against it as hard as I could," Thaler told AFP.
That reaction is understandable: How does one explain the fact that 90 percent of animal life, genetically speaking, is roughly the same age?
Was there some catastrophic event 200,000 years ago that nearly wiped the slate clean?

Environmental trauma is one possibility, explained Jesse Ausubel, director of the Program for the Human Environment at The Rockefeller University.
"Viruses, ice ages, successful new competitors, loss of prey--all these may cause periods when the population of an animal drops sharply," he told AFP, commenting on the study.
"In these periods, it is easier for a genetic innovation to sweep the population and contribute to the emergence of a new species."
But the last true mass extinction event was 65.5 million years ago when a likely asteroid strike wiped out land-bound dinosaurs and half of all species on Earth. This means a population "bottleneck" is only a partial explanation at best.
"The simplest interpretation is that life is always evolving," said Stoeckle.
"It is more likely that--at all times in evolution--the animals alive at that point arose relatively recently."
In this view, a species only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.





  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #2
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #3
Quote
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.

And still perplexes evolutionists today.

  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #4
I'm ahead. I'm a man.
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #5
Quote
"The simplest interpretation is that life is always evolving," said Stoeckle.
"It is more likely that--at all times in evolution--the animals alive at that point arose relatively recently."
In this view, a species only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.
Microevolution may always be occurring. The fossil record shows that macroevolution is not always happening. Quite the opposite.
The problem still exists:
Quote
How does one explain the fact that 90 percent of animal life, genetically speaking, is roughly the same age?

  • Fenrir
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #6
Quote
"The simplest interpretation is that life is always evolving," said Stoeckle.
"It is more likely that--at all times in evolution--the animals alive at that point arose relatively recently."
In this view, a species only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.
Microevolution may always be occurring. The fossil record shows that macroevolution is not always happening. Quite the opposite.

Or, and I know this is a novel concept, one could actually read that actual quote and actually engage with what it actually says and not strawman an implied fantasy misrepresentation of that quote.

If one wanted to be taken seriously that is.
It's what plants crave.

  • nesb
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #7
I'm ahead. I'm a man.
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah.

I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in god I trust, yeah

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #8
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #9
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
  • Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 09:13:06 AM by socrates1

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #10
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


  • Spode
  • I'm sorry.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #11
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQfTqy8fZ0&list=RDAQQfTqy8fZ0&start_radio=1

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #12
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


The nodes on a cladogram represent theoretical "in-between species". But as this study shows, there is an absence of "in between species".

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #13
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.

"Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists--whether through design or stupidity, I do not know--as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups."

- Stephen J. Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"

Which is it Soc?  Is it by design or stupidity you recite the standard Creationist lie about Gould's work?

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #14
https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-survey-reveals-facets-evolution.html

https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Stoeckle-Thaler-Final-reduced.pdf

Looks like Soccy got suckered by this dog turd of a paper making the rounds of Creationist sites too.  The authors apparently know nothing about population genetics because they made the incredibly stupid blunder of mistaking mtDNA markers as showing speciation instead of the last common ancestor. All members of a species share a common matrilineal ancestor of the same species (just as humans have Mitochondrial Eve) but that isn't the same as being the first member of a species.    ::)

I was curious about where this paper was actually published so I tried to find it.  In the bombastic press release the paper is identified as being published in Human Evolution, Vol.33.   Springer used to have a journal called Human Evolution. but it ceased publication is 2007.  There is a professional journal titled Journal of Human Evolution put out by Elsevier but it is at Vol. 119 and the paper in nowhere to be found there.  Finally I found the source.  Turns out the rights to the title Human Evolution were picked up by an obscure Italian entrepreneur named Angelo Pontecorboli and is now published online (along with a few other titles) as a vanity journal.   :)   Looks like the authors paid to have this garbage published instead of submitting it for actual scientific peer review and publication.   I suspect either closet Creationism or amazing incompetence, or both.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #15
I was contacted not long ago by a second cousin who tracked me down after doing some genealogical sleuthing. We are connected - or so the so-called "records" would like us to believe! - by great-grandparents. But these alleged common ancestors do not exist. And even if they once did - we know practically nothing about them.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #16
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


The nodes on a cladogram represent theoretical "in-between species". But as this study shows, there is an absence of "in between species".
People seem to have woken up. It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to this point.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #17
People seem to have woken up. It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to this point.

I'm still curious if it was by design or stupidity you repeated the Creationist lie about Gould's work.  In your case I'm sure it could be both.

  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #18
What is the record for nested self-quotes?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #19
What is the record for nested self-quotes?
I believe "Socrates" has achieved 13 levels.

Speaking of which, it's high time this thread was moved to its proper home in ARSE.
Self-quoting soliloquies have no place in an actual science discussion forum.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #20
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


The nodes on a cladogram represent theoretical "in-between species". But as this study shows, there is an absence of "in between species".
People seem to have woken up. It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to this point.
Quote
The clustering pattern of life was elegantly articulated by Dobzhansky in his 1937
book Genetics and the Origin of Species [35] from which an extensive quote is merited.
Only through DNA barcodes can the same metric be used so that the "feeling that it
must be right" can now be given a single quantitative meaning across the entire animal
kingdom:
Quote
If we assemble as many individuals living at a given time as we can, we notice that
the observed variation does not form a single probability distribution or any other kind
of continuous distribution. Instead, a multitude of separate, discrete, distributions are
found. In other words, the living world is not a single array of individuals in which any
two variants are connected by unbroken series of intergrades, but an array of more or
less distinctly separate arrays, intermediates between which are absent or at least rare.
Each array is a cluster of individuals, usually possessing some common characteristics
and gravitating to a definite modal point in their variation.... Therefore the biological
classification is simultaneously a man-made system of pigeonholes devised for the pragmatic purpose of recording observations in a convenient manner and an acknowledgement
of the fact of organic discontinuity.
  • Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 12:26:51 PM by socrates1

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #21
TR should also not be condoning plagiarism.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #22
TR should also not be condoning plagiarism.
I agree.
Are we there yet?

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #23
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


The nodes on a cladogram represent theoretical "in-between species". But as this study shows, there is an absence of "in between species".
People seem to have woken up. It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to this point.
Quote
The clustering pattern of life was elegantly articulated by Dobzhansky in his 1937
book Genetics and the Origin of Species [35] from which an extensive quote is merited.
Only through DNA barcodes can the same metric be used so that the "feeling that it
must be right" can now be given a single quantitative meaning across the entire animal
kingdom:
Quote
If we assemble as many individuals living at a given time as we can, we notice that
the observed variation does not form a single probability distribution or any other kind
of continuous distribution. Instead, a multitude of separate, discrete, distributions are
found. In other words, the living world is not a single array of individuals in which any
two variants are connected by unbroken series of intergrades, but an array of more or
less distinctly separate arrays, intermediates between which are absent or at least rare.
Each array is a cluster of individuals, usually possessing some common characteristics
and gravitating to a definite modal point in their variation.... Therefore the biological
classification is simultaneously a man-made system of pigeonholes devised for the pragmatic purpose of recording observations in a convenient manner and an acknowledgement
of the fact of organic discontinuity.

This quote is from the study I gave the link for:
https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Stoeckle-Thaler-Final-reduced.pdf

Sometimes I wonder if you folks are as dumb as you seem.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #24
"Socrates" modified his post to supply the attribution after I called out his plagiarism.
Check the time stamps.

But whatever...
self-quoting soliloquies have no place in a science discussion forum.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins