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Topic: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution (Read 3299 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #25
"Socrates" modified his post to supply the attribution after I called out his plagiarism.
Check the time stamps.

But whatever...
self-quoting soliloquies have no place in a science discussion forum.
sucky has no place in a science discussion forum. Other than for comic relief.
Are we there yet?

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #26
Sometimes I wonder if you folks are as dumb as you seem.

Speaking of being a major league dumbass, why are you still pushing a garbage paper published in a non peer reviewed vanity journal?

BTW I've concluded you're both stupid and dishonest in the Gould quote mining.   :yes:

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #27
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
The evidence shows "an absence of 'in-between' species".
This means the "common ancestors" (at the nodes) do not actually exist.


The nodes on a cladogram represent theoretical "in-between species". But as this study shows, there is an absence of "in between species".
People seem to have woken up. It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to this point.
Quote
The clustering pattern of life was elegantly articulated by Dobzhansky in his 1937
book Genetics and the Origin of Species [35] from which an extensive quote is merited.
Only through DNA barcodes can the same metric be used so that the "feeling that it
must be right" can now be given a single quantitative meaning across the entire animal
kingdom:
Quote
If we assemble as many individuals living at a given time as we can, we notice that
the observed variation does not form a single probability distribution or any other kind
of continuous distribution. Instead, a multitude of separate, discrete, distributions are
found. In other words, the living world is not a single array of individuals in which any
two variants are connected by unbroken series of intergrades, but an array of more or
less distinctly separate arrays, intermediates between which are absent or at least rare.
Each array is a cluster of individuals, usually possessing some common characteristics
and gravitating to a definite modal point in their variation.... Therefore the biological
classification is simultaneously a man-made system of pigeonholes devised for the pragmatic purpose of recording observations in a convenient manner and an acknowledgement
of the fact of organic discontinuity.

This quote is from the study I gave the link for:
https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Stoeckle-Thaler-Final-reduced.pdf

Sometimes I wonder if you folks are as dumb as you seem.
sucky, you're looking wrong way round through the microscope.
But in your case, there's no doubt about it, you are as dumb as you seem.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #28
Sometimes I wonder if you folks are as dumb as you seem.

Speaking of being a major league dumbass, why are you still pushing a garbage paper published in a non peer reviewed vanity journal?

BTW I've concluded you're both stupid and dishonest in the Gould quote mining.   :yes:
Yes, but is he stupidly dishonest or dishonestly stupid? Or both?
Are we there yet?

  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #29
Speaking of which, it's high time this thread was moved to its proper home in ARSE.
Self-quoting soliloquies have no place in an actual science discussion forum.
Done.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #30
You guys are a laugh. But at least I can now see even more clearly that cladistic analysis is bogus.

  • Fenrir
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #31
You aren't fooling anyone you know.
It's what plants crave.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #32
i bet he's fooling one person
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Faid
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #33
Nah. Not even that. Does a kid playing spacemen really believe he's a spaceman?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #34
Maybe?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #35
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
Quote
"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ....We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.
This is a dramatic way of stating the evidence:
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."
So why has this absence of "in-between" species, not been acknowledged by mainstream evolutionists? The reason is that cladistic analysis covers it over. Cladograms show imaginary "common ancestors" (at nodes) that in fact do not exist.
Quote
And yet--another unexpected finding from the study--species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.
Are you also "perplexed" that the volume of a a tree is mostly air? I'm not.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #36
For guests who may be interested:
https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FINAL-Human-Evolution-PHE-news-release-spring-2018-002.pdf
Quote
* Genetically the world "is not a blurry place." Each species has its own specific mitochondrial
sequence and other members of the same species are identical or tightly similar. The research
shows that species are "islands in sequence space" with few intermediate "stepping stones"
surviving the evolutionary process.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #37
For guests who may be interested:
https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FINAL-Human-Evolution-PHE-news-release-spring-2018-002.pdf
Quote
* Genetically the world "is not a blurry place." Each species has its own specific mitochondrial
sequence and other members of the same species are identical or tightly similar. The research
shows that species are "islands in sequence space" with few intermediate "stepping stones"
surviving the evolutionary process.
But why is this perplexing?

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #38
For guests who may be interested:
https://phe.rockefeller.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FINAL-Human-Evolution-PHE-news-release-spring-2018-002.pdf
Quote
* Genetically the world "is not a blurry place." Each species has its own specific mitochondrial
sequence and other members of the same species are identical or tightly similar. The research
shows that species are "islands in sequence space" with few intermediate "stepping stones"
surviving the evolutionary process.
Quote
The new study, "Why should mitochondria define species?" relies largely on the accumulation of
more than 5 million mitochondrial barcodes from more than 100,000 animal species, assembled
by scientists worldwide over the past 15 years in the open access GenBank database maintained
by the US National Center for Biotechnology Information.
The researchers have made novel use of the collection to examine the range of genetic
differences within animal species ranging from bumblebees to birds and reveal surprisingly
minute genetic variation within most animal species, and very clear genetic distinction between a
given species and all others.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #39
Yes? And? Why are you surprised that species diverge from common ancestors over time?
Why do I bother?

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #40
https://www.realclearscience.com/quick_and_clear_science/2018/05/21/what_can_dna_barcodes_tell_us_about_evolution_and_ourselves.html
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies. They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space," Thaler analogized.
The study demonstrates that "Big Data" can play a pivotal role in classification, and has the potential to infuse taxonomy with a needed measure of objectivity.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #41
And? What the fuck does that have to do with your irrational hated of cladistics?

And how does it answer the question I asked?
Why do I bother?

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #42
When you look at a cladogram you see hypothetical lines connecting taxon to taxon. For example you see a branching line connecting some ancient taxon branching to an existing taxon. Off that line there are a number of lines branching off.

Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #43
When you look at a cladogram you see hypothetical lines connecting taxon to taxon. For example you see a branching line connecting some ancient taxon branching to an existing taxon. Off that line there are a number of lines branching off.

Have you tried reading a book Doug?

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #44
When you look at a cladogram you see hypothetical lines connecting taxon to taxon. For example you see a branching line connecting some ancient taxon branching to an existing taxon. Off that line there are a number of lines branching off.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #45
When you look at a cladogram you see hypothetical lines connecting taxon to taxon. For example you see a branching line connecting some ancient taxon branching to an existing taxon. Off that line there are a number of lines branching off.



Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #46
 
https://www.realclearscience.com/quick_and_clear_science/2018/05/21/what_can_dna_barcodes_tell_us_about_evolution_and_ourselves.html
Quote
"If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies. They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space," Thaler analogized.
The study demonstrates that "Big Data" can play a pivotal role in classification, and has the potential to infuse taxonomy with a needed measure of objectivity.

Still pushing this non peer reviewed idiotic garbage paper?  What a surprise.   ::)

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #47
Take this for example:


Notice the circles on the slanting line. And notice the principle is that there was an evolution from one circle to the next.

  • Faid
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #48
Lol. After all these years, "socrates" STILL has no idea what the lines and nodes represent in a cladogram.

How utterly unsurprising.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: Sweeping gene survey reveals new facets of evolution
Reply #49
Take this for example:


Notice the circles on the slanting line. And notice the principle is that there was an evolution from one circle to the next.
This is for the guests. The folks here will pretend to not understand this. No point arguing that.