Talkrational Forum

Discussion => Alternative Reality Science Extravaganza => Topic started by: Dave Hawkins on February 16, 2017, 04:27:59 AM

Title: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 16, 2017, 04:27:59 AM
Quote
When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex real estate transactions, invests in many countries, goes on to phenomenal success in television and turns his name into a worldwide brand, it is very unlikely that he is mentally unstable.

When the same man obviously enjoys the love and respect of his children and his wife, who seem to rely on him for support and guidance, it is extraordinarily unlikely that he is mentally unstable.

When the same man walks into the political arena and deftly defeats 16 Republican opponents and then the Democratic heir-apparent to a two-term president's administration, the odds of that man being mentally unstable become vanishingly thin.

And when that very same man attracts to his team the kind of intellect and gravitas represented (to name just a few) by Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Dr. Ben Carson, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general and commander of the U.S. Central Command, he cannot be mentally deranged. Period. It is a statistical impossibility.

Those who assert otherwise are political opportunists, or fools, or both (and I am thinking here, in particular, of Sen. Franken).

President Trump is the first human being to win this nation's highest office without having held any other political office or serving as a general. Most political pundits thought his quest was pure folly. Most journalists assessed his chances as zero. So who was laboring under quasi-delusional thinking? Answer: Not Donald J. Trump.

Anecdotally, by the way, I have never had one bad Trump experience. Not one. I own several of his ties -- all of them of the highest quality. I have stayed in his hotels and never had a single complaint (and I am a born complainer). I have eaten in his New York restaurant -- flawless service, excellent food. I own an apartment at Trump Place in Manhattan. Impeccable design, sturdy construction, fabulous amenities. A mentally unstable man would be unlikely to deliver superior products across multiple industries, don't you think?

If you're still worried about the mental stability of the president, note this: The stock market doesn't like instability. Investors, en masse, can take the measure of a man pretty darn well. The stock market has hit record high after record high since Trump's election, and if you think that's an accident, or that investors have all been fooled, it's time to start wondering about your own capacity for rational thought.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/02/15/relax-trump-is-stone-cold-sane.html
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Martin.au on February 16, 2017, 04:31:08 AM
We need a thoughtless cheerleading emoji.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: thatsneakyguy on February 16, 2017, 04:32:49 AM
Unsubscribe
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 16, 2017, 04:40:42 AM
None of which has to do with his obvious insanity.

Plus he's so far out of his depth that he's looking up at the Titanic.  Government is not a business, even for a lousy businessman.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 16, 2017, 04:59:21 AM
Shouldn't the title of this thread be "Be very afraid, Donald Trump is stone cold sane"?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 16, 2017, 05:13:22 AM
What does a  political opinion piece, by some guy, on "FoxNews Opinion", have to do with "Science"  -  even pseudoscience (i.e. "alternative" science)?

I guess Hawkins is just not comfortable outside his playpen.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 16, 2017, 05:46:31 AM
Quote
When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex real estate transactions, invests in many countries, goes on to phenomenal success in television and turns his name into a worldwide brand, it is very unlikely that he is mentally unstable.

When the same man obviously enjoys the love and respect of his children and his wife, who seem to rely on him for support and guidance, it is extraordinarily unlikely that he is mentally unstable.

When the same man walks into the political arena and deftly defeats 16 Republican opponents and then the Democratic heir-apparent to a two-term president's administration, the odds of that man being mentally unstable become vanishingly thin.

And when that very same man attracts to his team the kind of intellect and gravitas represented (to name just a few) by Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Dr. Ben Carson, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general and commander of the U.S. Central Command, he cannot be mentally deranged. Period. It is a statistical impossibility.

Those who assert otherwise are political opportunists, or fools, or both (and I am thinking here, in particular, of Sen. Franken).

President Trump is the first human being to win this nation's highest office without having held any other political office or serving as a general. Most political pundits thought his quest was pure folly. Most journalists assessed his chances as zero. So who was laboring under quasi-delusional thinking? Answer: Not Donald J. Trump.

Anecdotally, by the way, I have never had one bad Trump experience. Not one. I own several of his ties -- all of them of the highest quality. I have stayed in his hotels and never had a single complaint (and I am a born complainer). I have eaten in his New York restaurant -- flawless service, excellent food. I own an apartment at Trump Place in Manhattan. Impeccable design, sturdy construction, fabulous amenities. A mentally unstable man would be unlikely to deliver superior products across multiple industries, don't you think?

If you're still worried about the mental stability of the president, note this: The stock market doesn't like instability. Investors, en masse, can take the measure of a man pretty darn well. The stock market has hit record high after record high since Trump's election, and if you think that's an accident, or that investors have all been fooled, it's time to start wondering about your own capacity for rational thought.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/02/15/relax-trump-is-stone-cold-sane.html

When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex [aviation business stuff], invests in many countries, goes on to phenomenal success in [movies] and turns his name into a worldwide brand, it is very unlikely that he is mentally unstable.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Howard_Hughes_1938.jpg/220px-Howard_Hughes_1938.jpg)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 16, 2017, 06:12:51 AM
You think Dave will figure out who that is?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 16, 2017, 06:58:37 AM
You think Dave will figure out who that is?
In Chrome, takes two clicks.

So, not a chance.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 16, 2017, 07:10:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTtfVOyVsf0
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 16, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote
And when that very same man attracts to his team the kind of intellect and gravitas represented (to name just a few) by Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Dr. Ben Carson, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general and commander of the U.S. Central Command, he cannot be mentally deranged. Period. It is a statistical impossibility.

Just how is this calculated, I wonder?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 16, 2017, 07:37:25 AM
Cross-posted:

Trump will hold a rally this weekend (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-trump-rally-set-for-melbourne-20170215-story.html)

As Ed Brayton (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2017/02/16/trump-cant-stop-holding-campaign-rallies/) says:

Quote
You don't need to be a psychologist to see what this is about. Trump is getting pummeled in the media, his administration is off to a horrible start in every possible way. You can imagine perfectly, and I'm sure accurately, his aides saying to each other, "The president seems really down in the dumps. We need to do something to help him snap out of it." "Yeah, I know what to do. We'll hold a rally and get thousands of people cheering for him!"

Trump absolutely craves praise. He's like a child who has to get a cookie as a reward for everything he does. And no matter how bad things are in the real world, that world is the only one he really cares about. He will shut off everything else and just bask in the wild applause of a few thousand lackwits and that will become his whole world. That's why he's constantly talking about the "many people" he knows who think he's right about something, or all the phone calls he's gotten telling him he's doing the right thing. Even if polls show 90% disapproval of it, if he is getting praise from some group of people, that is the only group of people that exists.

You know what it is? SAD!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 16, 2017, 07:45:25 AM
Since when did Ben Carson have a first class intellect? I mean ok he became a doctor, but he seems to have shut off the thinking circuits since then.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Wally on February 16, 2017, 08:09:27 AM
Dave, Trump is as sane as you are.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 16, 2017, 08:23:31 AM
Dave's source:

Quote
In April 2011, Ablow wrote a health column for FoxNews.com[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-GenderIdentity-19) which criticized designer Jenna Lyons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Lyons) for publishing an advertisement in the J. Crew (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Crew) catalogue in which she was depicted painting her young son's toenails hot pink. Ablow wrote that gender distinctions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_roles) are "part of the magnificent synergy that creates and sustains the human race". The column sparked a controversy around his claims that painting a child's toenails pink could have an effect on their gender identity and led to accusations of overreaction, as was reported upon by numerous news media sources.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-20)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-21)[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-22)[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-23)
In 2012, when the most watched video on the Internet (Gangnam Style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangnam_Style)) became a subject of Bill O'Reilly's show with Ablow as guest, Ablow suggested that the song was "without intelligible words," apparently unaware that the song was in Korean. This led him to conclude that the song was "without reality, feeling, and meaning," suggesting that watching it is like "taking a drug." The rest of the segment focused on Ablow's disappointment in his book sales compared to the success of Psy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psy).[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-24)
During the 2012 Republican primary, Ablow wrote a column arguing that Newt Gingrich's three marriages actually made him more qualified to be president. He wrote: "When three women want to sign on for life with a man who is now running for president, I worry more about whether we'll be clamoring for a third Gingrich term, not whether we'll want to let him go after one."[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-25) The column was criticized, with Rod Dreher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Dreher) of The American Conservative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Conservative) commenting thus: "Oh for frack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frak_(expletive))'s sake. At some point, you have to wonder when shamelessness crosses the line from character defect to psychopathology. If only Dr. Leo Spaceman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Leo_Spaceman) were a Republican, he could have a lucrative career on Fox."[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-26)
On August 12, 2014, as a guest co-host on the Fox News show, Outnumbered (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outnumbered_(TV_program)), Ablow criticized First Lady Michelle Obama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Obama)'s weight, stating "she needs to drop a few [pounds]."[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-27) On an August 21, 2014 segment, he told the women panelists on the show that they also need to lose weight.[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-28)
On October 9, 2014, concerning the Ebola outbreak in West Africa, Ablow opined on Fox News that he believed the president "may literally believe we should suffer along with less fortunate nations. And if he does, that is a very dangerous psychological stance from which to confront Ebola".[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-29) He stated that President Obama was not protecting the United States from Ebola because his "affiliations" and "affinities" were more with Africa.[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-30) His Ebola comments drew criticism, including from Fox television host Greg Gutfeld (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Gutfeld) (The Five (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_(TV_program))).[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow#cite_note-31)
On May 5, 2015, on the Fox New show Outnumbered, Ablow stated that he believes that men should be able to "veto" women's abortions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ablow
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 16, 2017, 08:25:40 AM
Most of the above is typical rw stuff, but the bit about not knowing that Psy's song was in the Korean language is hilarious.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on February 16, 2017, 08:29:56 AM
Yep. Dave's source sure sounds unbiased and sane. Dave, you sure can pick them. But then again, you don't care if it comes from a misogynist, a religious extremist, or a racist, you"ll quote anyone you thinks agrees with you, not unlike Trump, who's about the narcissistic perceived adoration more than the actual facts.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Worldtraveller on February 16, 2017, 08:33:16 AM
Well, I guess this thread answers the question: is davey dork ever right about anything? 

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 16, 2017, 09:28:08 AM
In the sense of being a right wing blinkered fundamentalist middle aged white misogynist American man, Dave is always 'right'.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: SkepticTank on February 16, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
What does a  political opinion piece, by some guy, on "FoxNews Opinion", have to do with "Science"  -  even pseudoscience (i.e. "alternative" science)?

I guess Hawkins is just not comfortable outside his playpen.

It's about long distance mental health diagnosis.  Sounds like pseudoscience to me.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 16, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
What does a  political opinion piece, by some guy, on "FoxNews Opinion", have to do with "Science"  -  even pseudoscience (i.e. "alternative" science)?

I guess Hawkins is just not comfortable outside his playpen.

It's about long distance mental health diagnosis.  Sounds like pseudoscience to me.
Well... ok. A case could be made.
In that spirit, I believe there is a strong case for a diagnosis of fairly advanced dementia here:
Questioned About Anti-Semitism, Trump Brags About Election Victory (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-answers-question-on-antisemitism-by-bragging-about-election-win)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 16, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
... I believe there is a strong case for a diagnosis of fairly advanced dementia here:
Questioned About Anti-Semitism, Trump Brags About Election Victory (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-answers-question-on-antisemitism-by-bragging-about-election-win)
and here (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-transcript.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0)

jesus christ
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: nesb on February 16, 2017, 02:59:14 PM
So people need to write essays arguing that the President of the United States doesn't have a significant mental disorder.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 16, 2017, 03:01:46 PM
So people need to write essays arguing that the President of the United States doesn't have a significant mental disorder.
And that things are actually under control at the white house.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 16, 2017, 03:11:10 PM
Says it all.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 17, 2017, 02:43:39 AM
it's almost as if Dave owns a fat suit with a dead ferret stapled to the top. He's definitely out of the same mould as Hair Twitler in his thinking.

I'm still waiting for one of the Orange Shitgibbon's supporters to predict how the "little guy" will be better off after a year or two of this trainwreck-on-continuous-loop. I may be silly, but I can't quite grasp how reducing taxes on the wealthy, taking away affordable healthcare from the poor, removing environmental and financial protections, and starting trade wars is going to help anyone but the very wealthy
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 17, 2017, 03:49:01 AM
How the little guy will be better off?  Well he might be able to get a good paying job in Michigan working for Ford thanks to Trump.  Or at one of the other many companies who are committing to more USA factories.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 17, 2017, 03:50:37 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 17, 2017, 03:51:36 AM
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 03:53:17 AM
Yes Dave, some people follow the evidence.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 17, 2017, 03:57:48 AM
This should probably go in both this thread and trumpocolypse, but, Dave, watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TfqTHlMszA
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 17, 2017, 03:59:24 AM
You think I didn't already watch that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 17, 2017, 04:01:49 AM
  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ...
How do you know?
By what criteria?

Personally, I have no opinion on that.
It doesn't matter to me.

But - in light of the bankruptcies and multiple examples of stiffing contractors and "the little guy", I would avoid having anything to do with him. Unfortunately, I don't have that option now.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 04:07:39 AM
You think I didn't already watch that?
Ok so now even Fox News, which is hard right Repub all the way, is saying Trump is off the fucking planet and a pathological liar, and you're still swallowing everything he throws at you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: nesb on February 17, 2017, 04:13:19 AM
  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ...
How do you know?
By what criteria?

Personally, I have no opinion on that.
It doesn't matter to me.

But - in light of the bankruptcies and multiple examples of stiffing contractors and "the little guy", I would avoid having anything to do with him. Unfortunately, I don't have that option now.


Warren Buffet is one of the world's most successful businessmen. Trump is small potatoes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxMCLHXkVc&t=1s
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 17, 2017, 04:15:33 AM
You think I didn't already watch that?
I have no idea, but, looking at this thread title, there's a bit of a conflict.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 04:18:35 AM
Then again, it kinda makes sense that Dave would feel at home with someone who is off the fucking planet and a pathological liar. Dave worships people like that, and emulates them.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 17, 2017, 04:34:55 AM
Moving Voxrat's Trump spam to this thread ...

Yeah he didn't give a SINGLE example ... he gave SEVERAL!
Name one.

Quote
What a tool you are!
IKYABWAI right on schedule.



"Name one"?

OK ... the NY Times story on Trump's Russia ties ... watch Trump's mention of that here if you like ... http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/16/hannity-monologue-trump-news-conference-epic-beatdown-press

Here's a list of 16 "fake news" items ... http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-since-trump-won/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 17, 2017, 04:37:57 AM
Moving Voxrat's Trump spam to this thread ...

Yeah he didn't give a SINGLE example ... he gave SEVERAL!
Name one.

Quote
What a tool you are!
IKYABWAI right on schedule.



"Name one"?

OK ... the NY Times story on Trump's Russia ties ... watch Trump's mention of that here if you like ... http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/16/hannity-monologue-trump-news-conference-epic-beatdown-press

Here's a list of 16 "fake news" items ... http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-since-trump-won/
Holy shit. That list. Twitter is news?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 17, 2017, 04:54:13 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 17, 2017, 05:39:37 AM
Moving Voxrat's Trump spam to this thread ...

Yeah he didn't give a SINGLE example ... he gave SEVERAL!
Name one.

Quote
What a tool you are!
IKYABWAI right on schedule.



"Name one"?

OK ... the NY Times story on Trump's Russia ties ... watch Trump's mention of that here if you like ... http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/16/hannity-monologue-trump-news-conference-epic-beatdown-press

No, dave. I'm not going to sit through 8 minutes of Sean Fucking Hannity's OPINION showcase to try to figure out what you might try to defend. I watched, and listened to, the entire fiasco yesterday, and I didn't hear any examples of press lying, dishonesty, or fake news. Either you can cite an example, or you can't.  Apparently, you can't.
Quote
Here's a list of 16 "fake news" items ... http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-since-trump-won/
We can take up other people's accusations somewhere else if you like. But right now we're talking about TRUMP'S lying accusations of press dishonesty and fake news.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 17, 2017, 05:50:28 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
Seriously, Hawkins. Did you watch it? or are you getting all your information second hand from Sean Hannity and the like?

Because Trump was caught, dead to rights, actually propagating (there's that word again) fake news about his "historic" electoral win. His excuse? "I was given that information. I don't know. I was just given, we had a very big margin...
actually I've seen that information around."

So, here we have an actual, undisputed case of Trump propagating fake news, in the same press conference where he's repeatedly accusing the press of fake news, but can't cite a single example.

Have you ever read* George Orwell, Hawkins?

* read - not "hawkinzed".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 17, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
How the little guy will be better off?  Well he might be able to get a good paying job in Michigan working for Ford thanks to Trump.  Or at one of the other many companies who are committing to more USA factories.
Ford made their decision months before the election. Trump had nothing to do with it.

Speaking of Ford factories, how many hundreds of billions would your plan for the Kansas Ford factory cost?

Have you noticed the many factories such as Rexnord that are still leaving? And that Trump got Carrier to save 800 jobs with a big bribe... which they said they are going to use to develop automation to get rid of those workers in a few years.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 17, 2017, 05:59:52 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies and lost money relative to the stock market and got what he did by starting out rich and screwing the little guy over and over."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen rich because of his father's money and not because of any talent... and many people one person here can't even see that basic fact.
fyp.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 17, 2017, 06:13:26 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Poor dave. Just look at him, teasing and baiting and goading us, desperately trying to steer the discussion towards the only thing he (feels like) he has arguments for: Trump being a "good businessman".

Sad.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 17, 2017, 07:23:01 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Poor dave. Just look at him, teasing and baiting and goading us, desperately trying to steer the discussion towards the only thing he (feels like) he has arguments for: Trump being a "good businessman".

Sad.

Measured by the same metric Dave and Trumpkin ARE good businessmen,

It's just that real successful businessmen call Dave and Trumpkin FAILED businessmen.

What's the Trump brand worth, when the American people take up his suggestion of "buying American" and leave his foreign-made ties and shirts on the shelf, and when Trump-labelled buildings and businesses worldwide are terrorist targets?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 17, 2017, 08:44:00 AM
Lying accusations of lying are about the worst kind of lie.
Both Hawkins and Trump have always been masters of this.
But it is troubling how obviously Hawkins feels more emboldened than ever to fly his post-factual flag more proudly than ever. There are undoubtedly millions of Trump True Believers who will be similarly encouraged, by the shameless example of the liar in chief, to accuse everyone who tells a truth they don't like of "lying", "fake news", "very very dishonest" etc.  No need to support any of these lying accusations!

How do we know a given item Trump accuses of being "fake news" is, in fact, fake news?
Quote
The news is fake because so much of the news is fake.
Well. I guess that settles that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 17, 2017, 08:45:31 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
Seriously, Hawkins. Did you watch it? or are you getting all your information second hand from Sean Hannity and the like?

Because Trump was caught, dead to rights, actually propagating (there's that word again) fake news about his "historic" electoral win. His excuse? "I was given that information. I don't know. I was just given, we had a very big margin...
actually I've seen that information around."

So, here we have an actual, undisputed case of Trump propagating fake news, in the same press conference where he's repeatedly accusing the press of fake news, but can't cite a single example.

Have you ever read* George Orwell, Hawkins?

* read - not "hawkinzed".
No. He hasn't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 17, 2017, 11:34:39 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
Seriously, Hawkins. Did you watch it? or are you getting all your information second hand from Sean Hannity and the like?

Because Trump was caught, dead to rights, actually propagating (there's that word again) fake news about his "historic" electoral win. His excuse? "I was given that information. I don't know. I was just given, we had a very big margin...
actually I've seen that information around."

So, here we have an actual, undisputed case of Trump propagating fake news, in the same press conference where he's repeatedly accusing the press of fake news, but can't cite a single example.

Have you ever read* George Orwell, Hawkins?

* read - not "hawkinzed".
No. He hasn't.
Yeah, he claimed the Medieval Europe was "Orwellian" a while back...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?
Dave wouldn't even understand the April Ryan incident. You'll have to actually explain it to him, in  detail, if you want it to have any impact.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 17, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
I bet he won't get it even then.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 02:14:57 PM
Probably not. My guess is that he'd just flail around a bit, then accuse Bors of being a manipulative bitch again.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 17, 2017, 02:15:21 PM
BTW dave, you're all about the environment, right?  What do you think of your Leader's choice for the head of the EPA?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 02:19:56 PM
How the little guy will be better off?  Well he might be able to get a good paying job in Michigan working for Ford thanks to Trump.  Or at one of the other many companies who are committing to more USA factories.
Hey Dave, your idol (thou shalt not worship false gods) is ordering people to just invent shit about his economic policies.

Vox blurb: Trump transition ordered government economists to cook up rosy growth forecasts (http://www.vox.com/2017/2/17/14651208/trump-budget-forecast)

Original article (paywalled): Trump Team's Growth Forecasts Far Rosier Than Those of CBO (https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-teams-growth-forecasts-far-rosier-than-those-of-cbo-private-economists-1487356278)

Quote from: Vox
As the White House staff tries to put together a budget for President Donald Trump, they face a fundamental problem. Trump has promised to cut taxes, increase spending on the military and infrastructure, and avoid cuts to Social Security and Medicare. The only way to do that without producing an exploding budget deficit is to assume a big increase in economic growth.

And Nick Timiraos at the Wall Street Journal reports that Trump is planning to do just that -- by making things up.

Deep into his story about Trump budget hijinks, Timiraos reveals that "what's unusual about the administration's forecasts isn't just their relative optimism but also the process by which they were derived." Specifically, what's unusual about them is that they weren't derived by any process at all. Instead of letting economists build a forecast, Trump's budget was put together with "transition officials telling the CEA staff the growth targets that their budget would produce and asking them to backfill other estimates off those figures."
Wotcha reckon about that? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 17, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
BTW dave, you're all about the environment, right?  What do you think of your Leader's choice for the head of the EPA?
There's a problem, right there.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 17, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
That wouldn't work either. His Holiness Trump, Blessed Be His Name, can't be racist.  He said so.

He has no clue what racism is.  Bet Dave doesn't either.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 17, 2017, 06:49:08 PM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?
Dave wouldn't even understand the April Ryan incident. You'll have to actually explain it to him, in  detail, if you want it to have any impact.
:sadyes:  You're probably right. And explaining would do little good because, much like Trump. he likely can't even recognise it in himself.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 04:29:20 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Poor dave. Just look at him, teasing and baiting and goading us, desperately trying to steer the discussion towards the only thing he (feels like) he has arguments for: Trump being a "good businessman".

Sad.

Measured by the same metric Dave and Trumpkin ARE good businessmen,

It's just that real successful businessmen call Dave and Trumpkin FAILED businessmen.

What's the Trump brand worth, when the American people take up his suggestion of "buying American" and leave his foreign-made ties and shirts on the shelf, and when Trump-labelled buildings and businesses worldwide are terrorist targets?
What's the Trump brand worth?  Why don't you ask the stock market?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 04:32:27 AM
  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ...
How do you know?
By what criteria?

Personally, I have no opinion on that.
It doesn't matter to me.

But - in light of the bankruptcies and multiple examples of stiffing contractors and "the little guy", I would avoid having anything to do with him. Unfortunately, I don't have that option now.


Warren Buffet is one of the world's most successful businessmen. Trump is small potatoes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxMCLHXkVc&t=1s
Buffet is not and has never been a "businessman." I don't think he's ever started a business.  Or run one.   He's an investor. The world's most successful one.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 04:34:42 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
He's messed up in some ways.  Aren't we all?  But he also has many good qualities.  And it so happens that his good qualities are what are what's needed in the White House these days.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 18, 2017, 04:35:59 AM
What's the Trump brand worth?  Why don't you ask the stock market?
I did.
It was silent.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 04:38:50 AM
Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you live in the Alt-Universe.  Never mind.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 18, 2017, 04:41:38 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
He's messed up in some ways.
None of which you are willing to acknowledge specifically.
So you just hand-wave them away in this generic, "no one's perfect" non-response.
The post you are (not) responding to asks a series of specific questions.
None of which you address.
Quote
Aren't we all?
No. We are not all that that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending.
Quote
But he also has many good qualities.
In the eyes of his true believers, apparently. I don't see any.
Quote
And it so happens that his good qualities are what are what's needed in the White House these days.

It is characteristic of the raging narcissist to confuse "it is my opinion that..." with "it so happens that..."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 18, 2017, 04:43:18 AM
Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you live in the Alt-Universe.  Never mind.
Yeah, but for all the readers that live in YOUR universe, please explain how the stock market tells them anything about how much the Trump brand is worth.

(http://talkrational.org/archive/images/smilies/emot-care.gif)

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 18, 2017, 04:46:54 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Poor dave. Just look at him, teasing and baiting and goading us, desperately trying to steer the discussion towards the only thing he (feels like) he has arguments for: Trump being a "good businessman".

Sad.

Measured by the same metric Dave and Trumpkin ARE good businessmen,

It's just that real successful businessmen call Dave and Trumpkin FAILED businessmen.

What's the Trump brand worth, when the American people take up his suggestion of "buying American" and leave his foreign-made ties and shirts on the shelf, and when Trump-labelled buildings and businesses worldwide are terrorist targets?
What's the Trump brand worth?  Why don't you ask the stock market?

Which of the Bobbypinned President's businesses are quoted on the stock market? So far as I know, he sticks to private companies so he can avoid being accountable to shareholders and the authorities. I'm quite prepared to be proven wrong on this point.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 05:12:51 AM
I'll give you guys a full day to see if you can use your own fertile brains to answer your questions.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 18, 2017, 05:34:17 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
He's messed up in some ways.  Aren't we all?  But he also has many good qualities.  And it so happens that his good qualities are what are what's needed in the White House these days.
Dave, that wasn't just 'messing up'. That was full on treating a black woman reporter, who asked him a relevant question, like a child or a servant. That was Trump being apparently unaware that the Congressional Black Caucus even exists, when it is an organisation that even I, living in a different country, am well aware of.

In case YOU don't know, here:

Quote
The Congressional Black Caucus is an organization representing the African-American members of the United States Congress (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress).
This man is the President. How can he not be aware of a powerful body of elected congressmen and women?

What on earth would cause him to suggest this black reporter might be 'friends' with the members of the CBC? Does he think all black people know each other?

Why would he try to order her to 'set up a meeting'? The CBC is part of the US government, composed of members of Congress. You don't ask a random black person to do that, you get your own damn Presidential staff to coordinate meetings.

Donald Trump comes across as a racist lackwit in that conversation. There's no other way to interpret it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 18, 2017, 05:40:04 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
He's messed up in some ways.  Aren't we all?  But he also has many good qualities.  And it so happens that his good qualities are what are what's needed in the White House these days.
Bull.

Shit.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on February 18, 2017, 05:51:38 AM
I'll give you guys a full day to see if you can use your own fertile brains to answer your questions.

Let's see now, why would corporations whose activities have been somewhat limited by regulation get a boner when some nutter promises to take all that nasty anti-business socialist type regulation away? They can make fuck-tonnes more money screwing their customers and raping the environment that way, why wouldn't the market factor that in?

Why wouldn't the market factor in all those lovely profits from huge but poorly thought out walls and how about all those dollars in persecuting and deporting poor people. Why wouldn't the market factor that in?

Think of all the filthy lucre just waiting to be collected from unfettered access to regimes previously off limits due to sanctions. Why wouldn't the market factor that in?

The increased stock market is a reflection of greed and people salivating over the profits to be made from chaos David.

It's despicable. Just like you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 18, 2017, 06:43:19 AM
  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ...
How do you know?
By what criteria?

Personally, I have no opinion on that.
It doesn't matter to me.

But - in light of the bankruptcies and multiple examples of stiffing contractors and "the little guy", I would avoid having anything to do with him. Unfortunately, I don't have that option now.


Warren Buffet is one of the world's most successful businessmen. Trump is small potatoes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxMCLHXkVc&t=1s
Buffet is not and has never been a "businessman." I don't think he's ever started a business.  Or run one.  He's an investor. The world's most successful one.
Buffett Partnership Ltd? (started)
Berkshire Hathaway? (ran)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 18, 2017, 06:45:32 AM
Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you live in the Alt-Universe.  Never mind.
I'll spell out the issue for you. Trump's company is not publically traded, so would not be in the stock market. Hence, the stock market doesn't indicate the value of his brand.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 07:19:11 AM
Nope. Try again.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 07:20:14 AM
Ya Bore ...  I didn't intend to say "he messed up"...  I intended to say "he IS messed up" ...  but... Aren't we all in some way or another?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 18, 2017, 07:27:20 AM
Dave, did you watch that press conference? Did you not see how he talked to April Ryan? Did you hear/read what he said to her? Explain how the President of the United States of America can allow himself to be that out of the reality loop, that insensitive, and that condescending?

That's aside from all the rest of the sometimes dangerous insanity he was spilling all over the place.
He's messed up in some ways.  Aren't we all?  But he also has many good qualities.  And it so happens that his good qualities are what are what's needed in the White House these days.
What are those qualities, and in what ways have you seen him apply them during last month? 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 18, 2017, 07:33:46 AM
Nope. Try again.
Are you taking the position that the Trump organization in publically traded, or that privately held corporations valuation is determined by the stock market somehow?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 18, 2017, 07:45:20 AM
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief that there are "real" scientists here at this forum who actually believe that Trump is a failed businessman "because he went through some bankruptcies."  Trump is one of the world's most successful businessmen ... and many people here can't even see that basic fact.
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me .... after all, these same people believe in the "Alice in Wonderland" view of world history ... millions of years ... no Flood ... etc.
Poor dave. Just look at him, teasing and baiting and goading us, desperately trying to steer the discussion towards the only thing he (feels like) he has arguments for: Trump being a "good businessman".

Sad.

Measured by the same metric Dave and Trumpkin ARE good businessmen,

It's just that real successful businessmen call Dave and Trumpkin FAILED businessmen.

What's the Trump brand worth, when the American people take up his suggestion of "buying American" and leave his foreign-made ties and shirts on the shelf, and when Trump-labelled buildings and businesses worldwide are terrorist targets?
What's the Trump brand worth?  Why don't you ask the stock market?
The stock market is reacting positively because they like certainty more than uncertainty, and they know that Trump is going to let corporations ride roughshod over ordinary Americans and collect big windfalls from the Government and do whatever they want to increase their bonuses at any cost to others.

2008.  Here we go again.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 18, 2017, 07:47:38 AM
Nope. Try again.
Are you taking the position that the Trump organization in publically traded, or that privately held corporations valuation is determined by the stock market somehow?
Dave is taking the position that he wants to be just as smart as trump.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 18, 2017, 07:47:48 AM
Ya Bore ...  I didn't intend to say "he messed up"...  I intended to say "he IS messed up" ...  but... Aren't we all in some way or another?
Maybe.  But he's in the 99.99th percentile of being badly messed up. Some being messed up can be OK, all being messed up never is.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 18, 2017, 08:14:54 AM
Ya Bore ...  I didn't intend to say "he messed up"...  I intended to say "he IS messed up" ...  but... Aren't we all in some way or another?

But to what degree is he going to mess up the American people? Are you, Dave, in favour of removing the protection from financially unsophisticated folks against predatory financial advisors? Are you in favour of ruining the environment? Of making your fellow citizens pay more for essential goods? Of being told to be scared shitless of people with non-white skins?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 18, 2017, 08:36:27 AM
I just keep laughing every time I see this thread title.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 18, 2017, 09:53:01 AM
Ya Bore ...  I didn't intend to say "he messed up"...  I intended to say "he IS messed up" ...  but... Aren't we all in some way or another?
Perhaps. But there's a long way from personality flaws to outright racist attitudes. In this century I would have expected America to at least avoid electing  someone who would treat another human being like that because of their race. It's appalling, dismaying, it's shockingly vile behaviour. I cannot imagine being an ordinary black or brown person in the US right now.

At least you won't have to worry about polluting your stream, as this White House is in the process of gutting the EPA so that coal mines can legally dump untreated toxic waste into waterways. I'm not exaggerating, this is what has already been done.

Your grandchildren, if not your children, will curse your generation for knowingly allowing this to happen, as your air and water goes back to the halcyon days of the 1960s, when rivers caught fire and the air killed children (and miners) by slowly destroying their lungs.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 18, 2017, 10:10:50 AM
Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you live in the Alt-Universe.  Never mind.
Yeah, but for all the readers that live in YOUR universe, please explain how the stock market tells them anything about how much the Trump brand is worth.

(http://talkrational.org/archive/images/smilies/emot-care.gif)

I'll give you guys a full day to see if you can use your own fertile brains to answer your questions.
I got nuthin' so I'll do my usual bluff routine:
   - pretend I have an answer but everyone's too dumb to see it
   - hope that everyone forgets, and I can just quietly walk away from a dumb remark I typed out before thinking it through
   - if worse comes to worst, I'll spin some transparently inane bullshit like "the stock market went up, therefore Wall Street likes Trump, therefore that means Wall Street thinks the Trump brand is worth a lot"
fyp
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 18, 2017, 10:21:03 AM
 :sadyes:

(https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/losangelessplit.jpg?w=660&h=371)

Which do you prefer, Dave?

The head of the EPA likes the one on the right.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 18, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
I'll give you guys a full day to see if you can use your own fertile brains to answer your questions.

Are you taking the position that the Trump organization in publically traded, or that privately held corporations valuation is determined by the stock market somehow?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 18, 2017, 04:42:09 PM
No, Trump Org is private.  I am saying that Trump presidency is increasing confidence in the future business climate which is having the effect of increasing stock prices in public companies.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Martin.au on February 18, 2017, 04:52:07 PM
Davinition time
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 18, 2017, 04:59:07 PM
No, Trump Org is private.  I am saying that Trump presidency is increasing confidence in the future business climate which is having the effect of increasing stock prices in public companies.
I agree. But if you're not a big business or a multimillionaire the climate won't be so nice. Let the big banks and Wall Street do whatever they want as they did in 2008. Cut taxes especially for the 1% and businesses so the nation's economy goes where Kansas is now.

Better sell a bunch of windows ASAP and salt some away. Bet you don't sell a lot of windows in a major recession.

But yeah, the 1% and Wall Street and big business are very confident that their dreams have come true. For us, of course, those are nightmares.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 18, 2017, 05:07:31 PM
Of course you've never heard of the Gilded Age and robber barons. Or why they were called that.

Business will be booming Breathable air, drinkable water, safe working places... not so much.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 18, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
No, Trump Org is private.  I am saying that Trump presidency is increasing confidence in the future business climate which is having the effect of increasing stock prices in public companies.
But the original statement was:
What's the Trump brand worth?  Why don't you ask the stock market?

Are you somehow conflating trump branding and donald trump's presidency?

Oh, and Voxrat called it.
Oh yeah ... I forgot ... you live in the Alt-Universe.  Never mind.
Yeah, but for all the readers that live in YOUR universe, please explain how the stock market tells them anything about how much the Trump brand is worth.

(http://talkrational.org/archive/images/smilies/emot-care.gif)

I'll give you guys a full day to see if you can use your own fertile brains to answer your questions.
I got nuthin' so I'll do my usual bluff routine:
   - pretend I have an answer but everyone's too dumb to see it
   - hope that everyone forgets, and I can just quietly walk away from a dumb remark I typed out before thinking it through
   - if worse comes to worst, I'll spin some transparently inane bullshit like "the stock market went up, therefore Wall Street likes Trump, therefore that means Wall Street thinks the Trump brand is worth a lot"
fyp
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 18, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
I wonder if Dave has bothered to look specifically at which category of stocks in the market are largely responsible for driving the numbers up.

lol, yeah right.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 18, 2017, 06:23:35 PM
No, Trump Org is private.  I am saying that Trump presidency is increasing confidence in the future business climate which is having the effect of increasing stock prices in public companies.
You know how much the stock market went up during Obama's presidency?
You want to place any bets on whether the after/before ratio of the DJI of the Trump era will be greater than that of the Obama era?

(This time I'm going to insist the money be put in escrow beforehand. We all know what happened with our last bet.)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 19, 2017, 06:29:51 AM
Illiteracy or just plain stupidity?
Quote from: The Guardian
Donald Trump appeared to invent a terrorist attack in Sweden during a campaign-style rally in Florida on Saturday, inviting questions that he may have confused the Scandinavian country with a city in Pakistan.

With thousands of supporters gathered in an aircraft hangar in Melbourne, Florida, Trump used his speech to talk about migration in Europe and linked it to terror attacks in Brussels, Nice and Paris. He then added Sweden to the list, incorrectly stating that an attack had happened there on Friday.

Trump told supporters: "We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden."

"Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

There were questions about whether Trump had confused Sweden with Sehwan in Pakistan, where more than 85 people were killed in a suicide bombing at the Sufi shrine on Friday.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 19, 2017, 08:04:18 AM
I don't think there was any confusion- He's just making shit up as usual.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 19, 2017, 10:09:00 AM
I don't think there was any confusion- He's just making shit up as usual.
The Trump comment on Sweden is confusing not only newspapers all over Scandinavia. This just in:

Sweden's embassy in Washington is asking the US Foreign Office what Trump meant.

Carl Bildt, former Swedish prime minister and former foreign minister, wonders on Twitter what Trump had been smoking.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on February 19, 2017, 10:15:34 AM
Neo Nazis did attack a refugee camp in Sweden.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 19, 2017, 10:17:42 AM
No, Trump Org is private.  I am saying that Trump presidency is increasing confidence in the future business climate which is having the effect of increasing stock prices in public companies.
You know how much the stock market went up during Obama's presidency?
You want to place any bets on whether the after/before ratio of the DJI of the Trump era will be greater than that of the Obama era?

(This time I'm going to insist the money be put in escrow beforehand. We all know what happened with our last bet.)
Quote from: Dave Hawkins

  <          crickets          >

I'll take that as a "No".
Probably a wise choice.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 19, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Neo Nazis did attack a refugee camp in Sweden.
Friday night?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 19, 2017, 10:57:20 AM
He probably meant "last month" ... he's not too good with details
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 19, 2017, 11:02:51 AM
He probably meant "last month" ... he's not too good with detailsreality.
:FIFY:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 19, 2017, 11:11:23 AM
He probably meant "last month" ... he's not too good with details
Quite a quality for the President of the United States...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 19, 2017, 11:34:36 AM
He probably meant "last month" ... he's not too good with details
Just like any good President!

Oh wait.

I mean, just like any good businessman!

Oh wait.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 19, 2017, 12:01:31 PM
Just like any good doctor ...

"Hey Nurse Goodbody... Take care of this patient would you?   He fell and hurt his back ... last night ... or last week ... Or last month... I don't remember."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 19, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
Christ Almighty.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 19, 2017, 02:58:08 PM
Neo Nazis did attack a refugee camp in Sweden.
Details please. Trump explicitly referred to last Friday. Not a word in my Saturday paper on anything spectacular. Swedish journalists seem to be generally left leaning, so you can be quite certain that attacks from the extreme right will be very well published and (of course) condemned.

There have been attacks on refugee camps. It isn't always clear if the perpetrators are neonazis or general hooligans. Either way, those incidents can't be compared to the atrocities Trump mentioned in the same breath. I don't think that any refugees in Sweden have been killed by attacks, for example. My understanding is that attacks are mainly by graffiti or in very isolated cases arson.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 19, 2017, 03:40:18 PM
Just like any good doctor ...

"Hey Nurse Goodbody... Take care of this patient would you?   He fell and hurt his back ... last night ... or last week ... Or last month... I don't remember."
"Dr. Hawkins, we don't treat month-old falls in the ER. Can you please see to the unstable RTA victim?"


Oh wait.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 19, 2017, 03:51:44 PM
Neo Nazis did attack a refugee camp in Sweden.
Details please. Trump explicitly referred to last Friday. Not a word in my Saturday paper on anything spectacular. Swedish journalists seem to be generally left leaning, so you can be quite certain that attacks from the extreme right will be very well published and (of course) condemned.

There have been attacks on refugee camps. It isn't always clear if the perpetrators are neonazis or general hooligans. Either way, those incidents can't be compared to the atrocities Trump mentioned in the same breath. I don't think that any refugees in Sweden have been killed by attacks, for example. My understanding is that attacks are mainly by graffiti or in very isolated cases arson.
Donald Trump Explains Sweden Terror Comment That Baffled a Nation (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-explains-sweden-terror-comment-baffled-nation-n723006)
Quote
Trump took to his Twitter account Sunday evening to explain that he was referring to a Tucker Carlson segment that appeared on Fox News Friday. In the segment, Carlson interviewed right-wing filmmaker Ami Horowitz, who had recently made a documentary about Sweden's refugee policy. The segment did not contain breaking news. ...
"He was talking about rising crime and recent incidents in general -- not referring to a specific incident," White House Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters.

The country had spent the day baffled, however, because the president had said "last night" and nothing appeared to have happened.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 19, 2017, 04:44:16 PM
And, of course, Trump has a different story. And isn't bright enough to realize that if something like that happened and someone in the White House didn't tell him he doesn't have a functioning organization. The guy is unhinged.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HarryWiddifield/status/833437635326603264

Trump's 'Last night in Sweden' comment fuels Twitter firestorm (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-sweden-twitter-235196)


Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 19, 2017, 05:32:04 PM
He probably meant "last month" ... he's not too good with details
"Last night" and "a month ago" aren't really the same thing. At all.

Also, in context that wouldn't make sense. He lists it along with IS inspired attacks. His point would boil down to:
1. They took in large numbers of refugees
2. Neonazis didn't like that
3. Neonazis  groups tried to blow up a refugee camp
4. We should do what neonazis want!

That or it's him being concerned that America is so riddled with racism that refugees would be less safe here than the wartorn regions they are fleeing.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 19, 2017, 05:45:57 PM
Trump's most ardent supporters insist he was referring to the purported rise in Swedish rape and other crime statistics, for which immigrants have been blamed. It's done no good for people, including Swedish people, to refer them to the different methods by which Sweden compiles crime statistics, nor to the Swedish studies which reveal that poverty correlates with crimes more than ethnicity, and that second gen. immigrants commit crimes at about the same rate as native Swedes. No, it's those rapey violent Muslims in Sweden that Trump was referring to, which totally backs up Trump's immigration ban.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 20, 2017, 03:51:00 AM
*Adds "Last Night in Sweden" to his list of Cool Band Names*
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 20, 2017, 04:29:40 AM
It's interesting that, at the same time as Trump presents alternative facts about Sweden, Russian Internet trolls are active spreading lies about us. Maybe we on average are doing things right?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 20, 2017, 07:45:57 AM
It's interesting that, at the same time as Trump presents alternative facts about Sweden, Russian Internet trolls are active spreading lies about us. Maybe we on average are doing things right?
Probably, like most relatively sane countries, Sweden is doing the best they can against the usual human and global odds.

As for Russian trolls - I bet they aren't all Russian. I'm fairly convinced that Canadian Conservative Party trolls inhabit most Canadian news comment sites, and that American alt right trolls scatter their misleading and xenophobic comments everywhere - sometimes they out themselves by referring to American issues that have nothing to do with Canada, for example.

I see many comments and harangues about how 'bad' single user pay health care is in Canada and the UK, and how much better off people are with private insurance, how hordes of Canadians cross-border shop for medical care, how long the waits are, etc. No one argues that the Canadian or UK health care systems are perfect, but the gross exaggerations of these trolls (and probably paid American insurance co. trolls) undermine confidence in public health care and reduce the will to fix what's wrong, and encourage cynicism in any individual who does run into a problem.

The US is imo a politically sick society, has been for some time, and the infection has come to a head and burst with the Trump administration. And I think that infection is deliberately spread outside their borders.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 20, 2017, 08:16:31 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 20, 2017, 08:28:03 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/

Trump's words were:

Quote from: Trump
You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible

Sounds like not only is he referencing fake news, he didn't even listen to the fake news properly.  Nothing happened lastnightinsweden.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 08:40:27 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
Yeah, that guy was on Carlson promoting his bullshit documentary (AKA Fake Fake Fake news).  Trump saw him and Hawkinsed it to something totally different.

Here are Sweden's crime stats for 2016: analysis (http://www.thelocal.se/20170112/swedens-2016-crime-stats-analyzed):

Quote
That's according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), whose preliminary figures suggest that the overall number of crimes reported in Sweden during the last year was around 1.5 million, only a marginal (6,470) increase compared to 2015.

...

But a criminology expert has warned The Local that reaching conclusions by analyzing figures for reported crimes is a tricky business.

"Reported crimes are a lousy measure of the development of crimes. The number of crimes reported tends to be dependent on the discussion going on in the country," University of Stockholm criminology professor Jerzy Sarnecki said.

"What criminologists do is to look at the 10-year, 20-year development. Then we can see the trends. Year to year, it's impossible to judge why changes occur," he added.

An example of a figure from Brå's statistics which paints one picture in isolation but a different one with further context is that the number of rapes reported in Sweden increased by 13 percent in 2016 to 6,560.

But when that number is compared to 2014, where the number of reported rapes was 6,700, then a slight decrease can actually be seen. In other words, the number of reported rapes in Sweden dipped in 2015 (down by 12 percent to 5,920) then in 2016 it returned to around the same level as 2014.

Seen over a ten-year period, the number of reported rapes has gone up from 4,208 in 2006, partly because of legislative changes in the previous year and in 2013 broadening the definition, according to Brå.

According to Brå's figures, 10,500 incidents of sexual molestation were reported in the country in 2016 - a striking increase of 20 percent on 2015 (when 8,840 were reported).

But once again, 2015 was a year when reported sexual molestation had dropped significantly - it was down by eight percent that year compared to 2014, when 9,640 incidents were reported.

"The number of crimes reported can depend very much on the propensity to report," Sarnecki noted.

"In 2016 for instance there was a lot of discussion about sexual assault and the relation between sexual assault and immigration. We know through research that those kind of years with more discussion of those subjects see the number of crimes reported increase."

"The problem with explaining these figures is that very many variables not necessarily related to crime impact the figures. You have to be very careful, in particular if you look at changes on a year-to-year basis," he concluded.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Recusant on February 20, 2017, 08:41:29 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/

Horowitz is a mendacious hack.

"How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics" (https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/)

Quote
(https://debunkingdenialism.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/bra1.png?w=630)
Red is any kind of sex crime, blue is robberies, purple is any kind of physical assault, yellow is fraud, dark-cyan is any form of harassment and green is any kind of illegal threats.

The major result from this graph is that not a lot happens over time. Since 2005, most categories are roughly the same or slightly decreasing, although there is some random fluctuation from year to year.

[. . .]

Anti-immigration activists often point out that the observed number of rape reports per year is increasing. This is true, but does not demonstrate that the actual incidence of rape is increasing. As we saw above, it is more or less constant over time (with some year-to-year fluctuations).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 08:52:12 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/

Horowitz is a mendacious hack.

"How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics" (https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/)

Quote
(https://debunkingdenialism.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/bra1.png?w=630)
Red is any kind of sex crime, blue is robberies, purple is any kind of physical assault, yellow is fraud, dark-cyan is any form of harassment and green is any kind of illegal threats.

The major result from this graph is that not a lot happens over time. Since 2005, most categories are roughly the same or slightly decreasing, although there is some random fluctuation from year to year.

[. . .]

Anti-immigration activists often point out that the observed number of rape reports per year is increasing. This is true, but does not demonstrate that the actual incidence of rape is increasing. As we saw above, it is more or less constant over time (with some year-to-year fluctuations).

Interesting but doesn't really cover the time period of interest.  Do you read Swedish? If so, maybe you can get some useful information out of http://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/nyheter/2017-01-12-anmalda-brott-2016---preliminar-statistik.html?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 20, 2017, 08:55:15 AM
*Adds "Last Night in Sweden" to his list of Cool Band Names*
I have been practicing with some old band mates over the past few months. If we ever put a set together, I might put that to a vote.

We've already discussed bowling Green massacre.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 20, 2017, 08:55:26 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 20, 2017, 08:56:38 AM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
^^^ Gullible Rube spotted.

Aaaaand ninja'd
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 20, 2017, 09:06:30 AM
Also, it makes sense to ask swedes what is happening in Sweden. I can say with full confidence that last summer in Sweden I didn't see any problems with immigrants although I had a long conversation with an Iraqi immigrant while we watched a soccer/football game at the pub.

He had been a highschool math teacher but his school had been blown up and things went gunnysack. He had been in Sweden with his family for about 5 years and said he drove a cab. His English was pretty good and he liked hearing about America. He told me how he was able to take his family on a vacation in Egypt because it was so cheap there. We had a great time watching the game and talking. It was the European FIFA championship so it was a big game.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 20, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
When interpreting Sweden's rape statistics, it's important to be aware that the definition of "rape" has been stepwise expanded.

On deadly violence, it should be noted that for Sweden, it's 1 per 1000 000 inhabitants. USA: 5... Etc.

Trump said that there are immigrant dense suburbs that the police won't enter. Truth is that the police has increased their presence in several areas.

Trump also claimed that Sweden had its first Islamic terror attack not long ago. Probably refers to the suicide bomber in Stockholm 6 (SIX) years ago. Nobody else was hurt.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 20, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
It's easy to make up absurd scare stories like that about foreign countries when most of your supporters have never even left their own state or region and are insular and suspicious to begin with, not to mention given little or no education about any place outside of the US unless you've had a recent war with them.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 20, 2017, 12:53:45 PM
How embarrassing is it to be a citizen of a country whose president is such a tool that his VP and other assorted Ghastly Cunts have to fly round the world telling everybody not to take him seriously?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 20, 2017, 01:45:57 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 20, 2017, 01:47:13 PM
And Mike Pence is a ghastly cunt?  There's a first. Hadn't heard that before.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Nope. Do try to keep up.

After examining the evidence, we conclude that he heard a wingnut lying on Fox, Hawkinsed it to something much worse, and ran with it.

Rape is not up in Sweden.

Crime is not up in Sweden.

Nothing even slightly like what he claimed happened in Sweden.

But he didn't make it up from whole cloth. He made it up from some fake "news" on Fox.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 20, 2017, 01:59:58 PM
how em
How embarrassing is it to be a citizen of a country whose president is such a tool that his VP and other assorted Ghastly Cunts have to fly round the world telling everybody not to take him seriously?
how embarrassing it is to be a member of a species that imagines it has the skills of reason and logic.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 20, 2017, 02:00:26 PM
And Mike Pence is a ghastly cunt?  There's a first. Hadn't heard that before.
maybe you should get out more.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 20, 2017, 02:01:26 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Yes, because he pretty much did make it up out of whole cloth. You can argue that he believed it was 'truthy', because he reads and watches the same lying xenophobic alt-right media you like to consume, but reality begs to differ.

The so-called 'leader of the free world' has an obligation to properly inform himself about other countries, especially if he's going to insult them outright with lies in front of large crowds.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 02:04:56 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Yes, because he pretty much did make it up out of whole cloth. You can argue that he believed it was 'truthy', because he reads and watches the same lying xenophobic alt-right media you like to consume, but reality begs to differ.

The so-called 'leader of the free world' has an obligation to properly inform himself about other countries, especially if he's going to insult them outright with lies in front of large crowds.
He did get something of a jump-start from that wingnut on Tucker Carlson.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 20, 2017, 02:12:33 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Well yes, given that he is on record as a pathological liar who will do exactly that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: SkepticTank on February 20, 2017, 02:37:06 PM
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/vb.346937065399354/1435781209848262/?type=2&theater
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Recusant on February 20, 2017, 03:01:14 PM
Interesting but doesn't really cover the time period of interest.  Do you read Swedish? If so, maybe you can get some useful information out of http://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/nyheter/2017-01-12-anmalda-brott-2016---preliminar-statistik.html?

I'm not going to spend the time to try to watch the Horowitz propaganda, but the graphic in Dave Hawkins' link (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/) is from 2012.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 03:01:31 PM
Swedish police featured in Fox News segment: Filmmaker is a madman (http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/swedish-police-featured-in-fox-news-segment-filmmaker-is-a-madman/)

Your guy, Davie. A regular James O'Keefe.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 20, 2017, 03:04:19 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?

The non-gullible twat that no doubt you'd want a president to be maybe should use the vast resources at  his disposal to check the truth of such a thing. Why would he want to upset the Swedes - a valuable ally close to Russia.... oh, wait.....
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 20, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
And Mike Pence is a ghastly cunt?  There's a first. Hadn't heard that before.

Ghastly enough (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/think-trump-is-scary-check-out-mike-pence-on-the-issues_us_57f137d5e4b095bd896a11db)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 20, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
So no one here has watched Horowitz's documentary?  If you haven't watched it, how do you know it's propaganda?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 20, 2017, 03:25:18 PM
Well the people interviewed on it are claiming its propaganda and lies, so there's that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 20, 2017, 03:25:48 PM
Swedish police featured in Fox News segment: Filmmaker is a madman (http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/swedish-police-featured-in-fox-news-segment-filmmaker-is-a-madman/)

Your guy, Davie. A regular James O'Keefe.
Inb4 "They have to deny it all or they'll lose their jobs! IT'S A SWEEDISH CONSPEERACEE!!!!!".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 20, 2017, 03:26:49 PM
Donald says it. I believe it. That settles it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 20, 2017, 03:27:53 PM
So no one here has watched Horowitz's documentary?  If you haven't watched it, how do you know it's propaganda?
Well, this is a good indication:

Quote
"I don't understand why we are a part of the segment. The interview was about something completely different to what Fox News and Horowitz were talking about", says Anders Göranzon.

Why were you interviewed?

"It was supposed to be about crime in high risk areas. Areas with high crime rates. There wasn't any focus on migration or immigration".

How did you react to the news segment?

"We don't stand behind it. It shocked us. He has edited the answers. We were answering completely different questions in the interview. This is bad journalism."

Anders Göranzon continues: "It feels like hell. The real questions should be shown along with our answers. We don't own the rights to the film, but the end result is that we don't want to talk to journalists after this. We can't trust each other."

Have you done anything to stop the news segment?

"We just saw it. What can we do? One thing is talking to you. The excerpt they showed doesn't say anything, we answered a different question. We don't stand behind what he says. He is a madman."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Recusant on February 20, 2017, 03:36:50 PM
So no one here has watched Horowitz's documentary?  If you haven't watched it, how do you know it's propaganda?

From JonF's link (http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/swedish-police-featured-in-fox-news-segment-filmmaker-is-a-madman/).

Quote
Two Swedish police officers were interviewed in the film. Anders Göranzon and Jacob Ekström answered questions about how weapons are becoming more accessible. Horowitz also asked the officers about how crime has spread through cities. But the police officers now say that their answers were taken out of context, and are very critical of how their comments were portrayed on Fox News "Tucker Carlson Tonight". "I don't understand why we are a part of the segment. The interview was about something completely different to what Fox News and Horowitz were talking about", says Anders Göranzon.

Horowitz's assertions about Sweden are known to be dishonest. See "The Jewish Right-Wing Filmmaker Behind Trump's Much-Mocked Sweden 'Terror' Lie" (http://forward.com/fast-forward/363662/the-jewish-right-wing-filmmaker-behind-trumps-much-mocked-sweden-terror-lie/).

Quote
Among other crackpot and Islamophobic causes, Horowitz has taken to slamming Sweden for supposedly coddling Islamic terrorists.

Horowitz spoke in the Fox interview about an attack "not long ago" and derided Sweden for allowing a wave of immigrant-fueled crimes, including a jump in the rape rate.

The attack actually took place in 2010, not anytime recently, and long before the war in Syria sent refugees flooding into Europe. His claim about rising crime is actually contradicted by Swedish statistics -- its rape rate rose only after a reclassification of crime descriptions.

. . . And "Trump's invention of a Swedish terrorist attack was funny. But it likely comes from a dark place." (http://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/19/14662244/trump-sweden-terrorist-attack-fake)

Quote
[T]his "rape epidemic" is as fake as the Bowling Green massacre.

Canadian reporter Doug Saunders (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/swedens-rape-crisis-isnt-what-it-seems/article30019623/) rigorously investigated the narrative, and concluded that it "falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden." Official Swedish statistics do indeed show a high rate of rape, but that's because Swedish law has an extremely expansive definition of what qualifies as rape under the law. Sweden has a higher official rape rate, in short, because its police are better able to investigate and prosecute sexual violence.

"What we're hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it's related to immigration is more or less not true at all," Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University, told Saunders.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 20, 2017, 03:37:36 PM
See dave? THAT'S how you tell "fake news".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 20, 2017, 03:41:23 PM
See dave? THAT'S how you tell "fake news".
Well, that's not how Dave tells fake news.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 20, 2017, 03:50:07 PM
So no one here has watched Horowitz's documentary?  If you haven't watched it, how do you know it's propaganda?
What are the statistics on crime especially rape in Sweden over the past few years? Do you think they are linked to immigrants and, if so, why?

Can you figure out why the graph at the end of your link is misleading?

(The answer has been posted several times in this thread.}
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 20, 2017, 04:43:15 PM
See dave? THAT'S how you tell "fake news".
No no, you have to watch it then decide whether its real or not based on how it makes you feel.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 20, 2017, 04:50:31 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Lets not mistake incompetence for malice.  He's "not too good with details (http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,873.msg66079.html#msg66079)", remember?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ffejrxx on February 20, 2017, 05:02:02 PM
No no, you have to watch it then decide whether its real or not based on how it makes you feel.
the way trump does it is
1. watch several news stories
2. mix them up
3. split them in to several mixed stories
4a. if mixed up story = false = fake news, complain on tiwtter about fake news
4b. if mixed up story = true = post it on twitter and draw attention to it

its sad that we need to watch news that tump watches to see where he comes up with some of his crap
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 20, 2017, 05:12:19 PM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 20, 2017, 05:14:30 PM
Besides being an embarrassment, Trump's unpredictable trade policies (because who the hell knows what he's going to actually do?) are on track to possibly kill Texas industries, including cattle ranching. The banks are already tightening up in preparation.

Quote
But the Texas cattle rancher now faces a new threat: the Trump administration's blundering, blustering trade policy. By threatening a trade war with Mexico within days of inauguration, the president helped trigger a slide in cattle futures. Mexico is a major export market. By sinking the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new administration cut off long-sought access to the Japanese market. Now banks have raised the conditions for collateral for loans for ranchers.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/02/16/first-casualties-trumps-trade-wars-texas-cattle-ranchers?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

But read it all, Dave. Be surprised at the interplay of trade between the USA and other countries.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 20, 2017, 05:19:16 PM
Besides being an embarrassment, Trump's unpredictable trade policies (because who the hell knows what he's going to actually do?) are on track to possibly kill Texas industries, including cattle ranching. The banks are already tightening up in preparation.

Quote
But the Texas cattle rancher now faces a new threat: the Trump administration's blundering, blustering trade policy. By threatening a trade war with Mexico within days of inauguration, the president helped trigger a slide in cattle futures. Mexico is a major export market. By sinking the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new administration cut off long-sought access to the Japanese market. Now banks have raised the conditions for collateral for loans for ranchers.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/02/16/first-casualties-trumps-trade-wars-texas-cattle-ranchers?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

But read it all, Dave. Be surprised at the interplay of trade between the USA and other countries.
Dave doesnt read good.   Also wont read this.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/administration-adopts-never-mind-what-trump-said-foreign-policy
Quote
On his first full day as president, Donald Trump delivered a speech at CIA headquarters, where he lamented the fact Americans did not take Iraqi oil after the 2003 invasion. "The old expression, to the victor belong the spoils," the new president said, adding, "We should've kept the oil. But, okay, maybe we'll have another chance."

A few days later, in an interview with ABC News, Trump said, four times, "We should have taken the oil." Asked about the "maybe we'll have another chance" comment, Trump added, "[W]e'll see what happens. I mean, we're gonna see what happens."

Nearly a month later, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis arrived in Baghdad this morning, declaring, "We're not in Iraq to seize anybody's oil."

I call this part of the "Never-Mind-What-Trump-Said' approach to foreign policy, which follows an increasingly familiar pattern: the president makes a ridiculous comment, which creates international alarm, which leads to leading members of the Trump administration trying to reassure global observers that there's simply no reason to take the leader of the free world's claims seriously.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 20, 2017, 05:35:45 PM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 20, 2017, 08:13:25 PM
It was indeed a rare gem. It's been reposted a few times now. Many have it bookmarked. Surprised you missed it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 20, 2017, 09:56:24 PM
Here's the sensible explanation for Trump's Sweden comment ... https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/19/ami-horowitz-documentary-sweden-is-now-europes-official-rape-capital/
You are such a gullible tool.
I see.  So the "non-gullible tool" thing to believe would be that Trump just made this whole Sweden thing up out of whole cloth?
Correct.

For example, according to the persons who were interviewed by Horowitz, the conversation were edited in such a way that their answers appear to be responses to other questions than what they answered.

Trump said that Sweden accepted more than 160 000 asylum seekers in 2016. Correct number: just above 67 000.

For comparison of violence: Last year there were 50% more murders in Orlando/Orange, Florida, than in all of Sweden.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 21, 2017, 01:27:35 AM
I haz a sad for Americans. Every day, they wake up to a country that is a little more dumb, a little more cruel, a little more of  a laughing stock, and a little less trusted by its allies.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 21, 2017, 02:55:38 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 21, 2017, 03:15:07 AM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected....
Based on Dave Hawkins's completely unsupported opinion, based - in turn - on the propaganda he swallows uncritically, and regurgitates equally uncritically like the gullible tool that he is.

Quote
The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
Says the guy who has no problem with the concept of "alternative facts", the Bowling Green Massacre, the thousands and thousands of muslims cheering the fall of the twin towers, the horror of 2/17/17 in Sweden, the millions of illegals voting to rob The Leader of his rightful popular vote, the thousands of voters bused from Massachusetts to New Hampshire, etc. etc. etc...

Yeah Hawkins. We definitely live on a different side of the looking glass from you. No doubt about that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Martin.au on February 21, 2017, 03:20:00 AM
Must be a special definition for "truthful".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on February 21, 2017, 03:20:31 AM
Quote from: David Hawkins
1 plus 1 equals donkey!!1!. Not 95 donkey plus 15 donkey, real donkey.

:stareicide:  :sadcheer:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 21, 2017, 03:24:44 AM
Must be a special definition for "truthful".
Indeed.

Fact-checking President Donald Trump's Florida rally (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/feb/18/fact-checking-president-donald-trumps-florida-rall/)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ffejrxx on February 21, 2017, 03:29:22 AM
Quote from: David Hawkins
1 plus 1 equals donkey!!1!. Not 95 donkey plus 15 donkey, real donkey.

:stareicide:  :sadcheer:
yay, dave went to the same school as betsy
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 21, 2017, 03:47:34 AM
in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.
We have rubbed your nose in dozens of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies brazen lies, often repeated despite being repeatedly called out on them. 

You have yet to provide a single example of a Hillary Clinton lie.

Why is that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 21, 2017, 03:57:34 AM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.
:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
So how's your tea party going there, chum?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 21, 2017, 04:09:01 AM
Quote from: David Hawkins
1 plus 1 equals donkey!!1!. Not 95 donkey plus 15 donkey, real donkey.

:stareicide:  :sadcheer:
Dave's amp goes to 11.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 21, 2017, 04:30:09 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
Hah!

When you're ready to provide ONE example demonstrating how Hillary would be "much less truthful" than TRUMP, let us know.

Meanwhile, Pardon Us While We Fall Off Our Chair Laughing.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 21, 2017, 04:55:34 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.
And you can't name a single lie Hillary told.

Because she's no more dishonest than an average politician, and maybe even slightly more honest.

Trump is a pathological liar.  He can't talk for two minutes without at lest one howler.

So, no, moron, Hillary would have been a much more truthful and competent president.

Duh.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: davesgoats on February 21, 2017, 05:03:09 AM
Quote from: David Hawkins
1 plus 1 equals donkey!!1!. Not 95 donkey plus 15 donkey, real donkey.

:stareicide:  :sadcheer:
yay, dave went to the same school as betsy
:whyyou:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on February 21, 2017, 05:30:47 AM
I haz a sad for Americans. Every day, they wake up to a country that is a little more dumb, a little more cruel, a little more of  a laughing stock, and a little less trusted by its allies.
Yabut, that's when we're really at our game.

Think about it, during WW1, after a bit, wherein almost all the participants made egregious mistakes, the US gets invited in, totally changed the entire war. And most of the previous mistakes were forgotten for the moment. Everybody gets to take a break and laugh at the Stoopeed Americans, who misunderstand the entire situation and open fire. Rocky stands heroically over the smoking ruins. Everybody agrees to not let the US get involved in any future wars as they just take them way too seriously. Just people dying and otherwise being all unhappy, shit falling apart, critical resources damaged or destroyed, etc. happens anyway. All the time. They die sooner or they die later. They get the medicine and survive the What's a matter a few years or a few centuries. They survive the current plague, only to die in the next war. Big deal, one year or another. And then we go at it again, and what do those Yanks do, but take it to the next level and make it certain all of Europe is in range.

Now, we've unleashed The Trumpster on the world, something they cannot understand. Neither can we, but what the hell, it's yuge and amazing. It'll fuck things up good.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on February 21, 2017, 05:33:18 AM
Who'd have ever thought stupidity could be weaponized?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: MikeS on February 21, 2017, 07:19:07 AM
Who'd have ever thought stupidity could be weaponized?
Meme please.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 21, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
This is sad.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ffejrxx on February 21, 2017, 10:44:31 AM
Quote from: David Hawkins
1 plus 1 equals donkey!!1!. Not 95 donkey plus 15 donkey, real donkey.

:stareicide:  :sadcheer:
yay, dave went to the same school as betsy
:whyyou:
i didnt mean to offend daves that may not have gone to school or with a betsy
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 21, 2017, 10:44:44 AM
It's sad, but it's real for some 40 million Americans. They're a lot like Dave that way.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 21, 2017, 11:06:29 AM
Now now. There's no reason to limit stupid to America.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on February 21, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.

Open your damn eyes Dave.  You still haven't provided evidence of a single Hillary Clinton lie, yet still spew this character assassination bullshit.  I understand you still like the idiot you voted for, but living entirely in a fantasy reality isn't going to help anyone, let alone yourself when even your fantastic illusions come crashing down due to the idiot you voted for.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 21, 2017, 11:51:38 AM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.

Open your damn eyes Dave.  You still haven't provided evidence of a single Hillary Clinton lie, yet still spew this character assassination bullshit.  I understand you still like the idiot you voted for, but living entirely in a fantasy reality isn't going to help anyone, let alone yourself when even your fantastic illusions come crashing down due to the idiot you voted for.

The fact that we can't find the real evidence of Hillary's lies is proof of the depth of the corruption that protected her and the rest of the swamp creatures.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: nesb on February 21, 2017, 12:22:20 PM
That's the thing about really sophisticated lies. Sometimes everything seems to suggest them to be true, except your feeling that they shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 21, 2017, 12:37:42 PM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.

Open your damn eyes Dave.  You still haven't provided evidence of a single Hillary Clinton lie, yet still spew this character assassination bullshit.  I understand you still like the idiot you voted for, but living entirely in a fantasy reality isn't going to help anyone, let alone yourself when even your fantastic illusions come crashing down due to the idiot you voted for.

The fact that we can't find the real evidence of Hillary's lies is proof of the depth of the corruption that protected her and the rest of the swamp creatures.
I'm no fan of Hillary, but mostly because of that show House of Cards that I'm sure was part documentary based on her. Nevertheless, I do feel somewhat vindicated by the indirect indication that the Clinton Foundation was to some degree bent due to the dramatic drop in donations post election.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 21, 2017, 02:15:17 PM
You do know House of Cards was originally a BBC show, and the bad guy was just as corrupt in that as he was in the US version?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 21, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.

Open your damn eyes Dave.  You still haven't provided evidence of a single Hillary Clinton lie, yet still spew this character assassination bullshit.  I understand you still like the idiot you voted for, but living entirely in a fantasy reality isn't going to help anyone, let alone yourself when even your fantastic illusions come crashing down due to the idiot you voted for.

The fact that we can't find the real evidence of Hillary's lies is proof of the depth of the corruption that protected her and the rest of the swamp creatures.
I'm no fan of Hillary, but mostly because of that show House of Cards that I'm sure was part documentary based on her. Nevertheless, I do feel somewhat vindicated by the indirect indication that the Clinton Foundation was to some degree bent due to the dramatic drop in donations post election.
I was joking to some extent but this is actually a good point.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 21, 2017, 02:21:50 PM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
No, Dave. What's funny is that you are transparently, blatantly changing your standards to suit "your side". You are the one who, unprovoked, demanded "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." and then started excusing it for someone in a much more important position of power.

You show that you never cared about "Absolute. Fucking. Truth."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Martin.au on February 21, 2017, 02:37:09 PM
His own blog and behavior here shows that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 21, 2017, 08:04:51 PM
You do know House of Cards was originally a BBC show, and the bad guy was just as corrupt in that as he was in the US version?
Yes, like almost all half decent American shows, the original English version is superior. Is that true in this case? I knew of the BBC version, but have not had the pleasure of actually seeing it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 21, 2017, 11:18:35 PM
The original BBC version was brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJFiByfiRTA
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:22:42 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
No, Dave. What's funny is that you are transparently, blatantly changing your standards to suit "your side". You are the one who, unprovoked, demanded "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." and then started excusing it for someone in a much more important position of power.

You show that you never cared about "Absolute. Fucking. Truth."
I don't "demand" it ... as in "if you don't give it to me, I'm taking my toys and going home ..."  ... I "strive for" it in my own life ... and if I have to choose between "liar" and "pants on fire liar" in my presidential candidates ... then I'll pick the former.

Why is this basic stuff so hard for you people to get your heads around?

That's the fascinating part to me.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 22, 2017, 02:29:53 AM
So why can't you point to a lie that Hillary told and yet have to spin and twist and squirm to make so much of what Trump and his cronies say sound even half vaguely plausible?

See this is the problem. We understand that you wanted to choose the least dishonest candidate. It's just that by pretty much every metric you chose the most dishonest one. That's the bit we can't get our heads round.

Unless that is, honesty is just a figleaf to cover the fact that you deliberately voted for a racist, misogynistic, fascist.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:58:23 AM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:59:33 AM
Oh and it's not one of those "right wing fascist propaganda" news sites.  Hehe.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 03:30:17 AM
Oh and it's not one of those "right wing fascist propaganda" news sites.  Hehe.

Did you actually read the article?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 03:30:50 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 22, 2017, 03:34:28 AM
JFC.  ::)

(https://i.imgur.com/ufoeqaw.jpg)

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 03:38:41 AM
Yes

And you agree with its conclusions?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ffejrxx on February 22, 2017, 03:55:25 AM
id happily take a hillary scandal over trumps buckets of bs
atleast when she 'lies' she surrounds it with enough truth to make it seem plauseable
trumps bs is just covered in more bs

as for 'fake news', they only time they get things wrong is when their sources are unreliable
trump is making up crap and spreading fake news
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 04:00:29 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:01:08 AM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Aaaaand dave links to yet another article without reading it.

Fascinating.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:01:51 AM
Yes
I'm willing to bet that you didn't even Hawkins-read it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 22, 2017, 04:03:43 AM
I'd call it you being an idiot as per usual. Clinton's lies are about defending herself. Trump's lies are stirring up racial tensions.

Do you really think its ok to lie about how thousands of rapists are coming across the Mexican border, or that this is somehow less wrong than lying about whether an email server was approved or not?

Really Dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:06:05 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.
So who is the "defensive" liar, and who is the "offensive" liar? Examples please.

Reading more of the actual article may help.

You really backed yourself into a corner here, buddy. :D
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:07:56 AM
I'd call it you being an idiot as per usual. Clinton's lies are about defending herself. Trump's lies are stirring up racial tensions.

Do you really think its ok to lie about how thousands of rapists are coming across the Mexican border, or that this is somehow less wrong than lying about whether an email server was approved or not?

Really Dave?
He messed up because he hasn't really read the article. He just skimmed through it to find some example of comparing and evaluating lies, and presented it as something he "agrees" with, without bothering to check who each lie referred to. :rofl:

You REALLY put your foot in it this time, Hawkins.

What now?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 22, 2017, 04:15:03 AM
What makes it worse, in a way, is that article doesn't go out of it's way to explain that the "lies" people believe she told aren't necessarily lies. For instance, the article states people believe she lied about the server being legal and strictly speaking the server wasn't legal, but there's no doubt that she believed that it was. She never tried to hide it's existence nor tried to cover it up because she actually believed it to be legal. That's not the same as lying.

And as far as the emails themselves IIRC she never actually was the originator for any that contained classified information but received several and re:'d some of them that were marked with a low restriction and most of those were only designated and labeled confidential after the fact. Several of them were not headered as classified or confidential but marked with a lowercase "c" (confidential) midstream into the document which isn't all that hard to miss on a handheld device. IIRC because of it being the case that people are using devices with even smaller screens as technology has progressed into handhelds making that error more likely, that protocol is being changed as it should be because that's just fucking dumb.

All of this was factored into the FBI's and Comey's statement about there being nothing done that was illegal but she had been "careless". Which, again, is not the same as lying. And don't get me wrong, I think she's been dishonest just like others have readily acknowledged.

But the article Dave posted was more about what people perceive and believe because of their bias, emotion, and idiocy. Not what is actually objectively true ...

(https://i.imgur.com/ufoeqaw.jpg)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:20:45 AM
Well, what have we learned from this?

Dave (supposedly) AGREES that Clinton-type 'lies' are "not nearly as bad" as Trump-type lies.

And yet, he considers Clinton to be a far worse liar than Trump.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:24:01 AM
Unless, by "far worse liar", dave means that Hillary is not as CONVINCING a liar as trump.

I can agree with that, in  a way.

But this begs the question- Did dave actually vote for the person more capable of successfully lying?

:rofl:

'TRUTH MATTERS", indeed.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 04:31:07 AM
He's already realized he's goofed up, Pingu. That's why he's not posting.

ETA: It's me and Dave G's fault, really. We should have been patient and given him more rope. But it was too funny to pass.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 04:35:14 AM
He's hopeless.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 05:03:43 AM
Aaaaaaand he badgers off. Poor guy.

Thanks for making my afternoon, dave! :D
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 22, 2017, 05:56:57 AM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
So we're being shooed off to some link?
Funny how that's unacceptable when someone does it to you, but just fine the other way around.
If you refuse to explain it in your own words, I don't believe you can.
From the evidence in this thread, your claim that Trump's numerous documented outrageous lies are somehow minor compared some un-named lies of Clinton doesn't hold water. It's pretty clear you are just a gullible tool dutifully marching to the drumbeat of a demagogue.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 05:59:56 AM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
So we're being shooed off to some link?
Funny how that's unacceptable when someone does it to you, but just fine the other way around.
If you refuse to explain it in your own words, I don't believe you can.
From the evidence in this thread, your claim that Trump's numerous documented outrageous lies are somehow minor compared some un-named lies of Clinton don't hold water. It's pretty clear you are just a gullible tool dutifully marching to the drumbeat of a demagogue.

and who doesn't even bother to read his own links.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 22, 2017, 06:02:02 AM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Didn't even read the headline, did you?

"Trump lies more often than Clinton. But Americans think she's more dishonest. Here's why."

if I have to choose between "liar" and "pants on fire liar" in my presidential candidates ... then I'll pick the former.

Your own reference makes it clear that you picked the pants on fire liar" 

Trump lies more often than Clinton
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 22, 2017, 06:08:55 AM
But Dave likes Trump's lies. Trump's lies echo Dave's beliefs: black people are violent, brown people take good white American jobs and are rapey and violent, brutal dictators like Putin are admirable, and Christianity should be the only religion.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 06:21:09 AM
The weird thing is that Dave doesn't agree with those things.

His vote seems to have been entirely tribal.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 22, 2017, 06:36:11 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
No, Dave. What's funny is that you are transparently, blatantly changing your standards to suit "your side". You are the one who, unprovoked, demanded "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." and then started excusing it for someone in a much more important position of power.

You show that you never cared about "Absolute. Fucking. Truth."
I don't "demand" it ... as in "if you don't give it to me, I'm taking my toys and going home ..."  ... I "strive for" it in my own life ... and if I have to choose between "liar" and "pants on fire liar" in my presidential candidates ... then I'll pick the former.

Why is this basic stuff so hard for you people to get your heads around?

That's the fascinating part to me.
Interesting choice of words. Who got the most "pant's on fire" ratings from politifact?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 06:37:29 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.   Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.

 Those are lies we can live with.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 22, 2017, 06:39:48 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.   Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.

 Those are lies we can live with.
Was THAT what you got from that article? Really?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 06:49:04 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.   Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.

 Those are lies we can live with.
That's NOT what you supposedly "agreed with", dave.

Nice Pathetic try. But you can't save it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 06:50:03 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.   Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.

 Those are lies we can live with.
Was THAT what you got from that article? Really?
He never actually read the article. That's why he fucked up so bad.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 06:54:19 AM
I'll give dave this: If Clinton actually had an "agenda" it had to be pretty "nefarious". Since he cannot offer any indication as to what it was.

Trump's agenda, on the other hand, is crystal clear. He hardly tries to hide it. And it's also quite obvious which "people" it benefits.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 22, 2017, 06:56:14 AM
Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup. 
Then why did you shoo us off to an article that tells us that Clinton's lies are of the former category, while Trump's are of the latter?  You didn't read it, did you?
Quote
I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.
And what nefarious agenda is that? (One for which you have any evidence, that is) and how do what "lies" serve to "cover it up"?

No one has failed to note that YOU have yet to cite a single Clinton lie, let alone defend your contention that it's part of some unspecified "nefarious agenda".  You appear to be mindlessly parroting the Trump party line, like the good little gullible tool you are.
Quote
Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"
How does lying about thousands and thousands of NJ muslims cheering 9/11 "self-promote" Trump? What policy that's going to "save the country" does that support? And while lying about millions of illegal voters costing him the popular vote, and thousands of Massachusetts people voting illegally in New Hampshire  might be seen as "self-promotion" - lyingly converting a narrow electoral victory into a glorious landslide - how does it promote any "save the country" agenda? Do you think the voter suppression agenda those lies support will help "save the country"?

Quote
Enormous difference.
Yes, indeed. The one category consists of unnamed lies, allegedly supporting an unnamed "nefarious agenda", without even a feint at supporting that allegation. The other category consists of documented lies, with the clear purpose of stirring  up hate and promoting anti-democratic policies.


Quote
Those are lies we can live with.
Who's "we"?
Maybe you can live with them.
It's not at all clear the republic can.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 22, 2017, 07:01:13 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.  Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.
How is Trump's agenda benefitting the people?

So far he's caused mayhem (his ban) for legal residents of your country, separating families, terrifying children, preventing skilled workers getting back to their jobs, and the after effect of enabling confused or prejudiced border guards/TSA workers to do things like prevent or impede former heads of state, NASA scientists, airline pilots, university professors, Silicon Valley tech inventors, medical specialist doctors, etc. from entering/re-entering the country, also on the Canadian side, stupid ignorant bullshit including Muslim women with family in the US prevented from visiting their children's grandparents because they had 'Arabic Writing' on their phones, a Syrian chocolatier from NS, invited by the governor of Vermont to come and talk about his business denied entry, and countless other stupid arbitrary nastiness.

His boasts about keeping jobs/getting more jobs always turn out to be either false, exaggerated, or the company in question had already planned on expanding long before Trump became president.

His rah-rah coal industry agenda so far has not produced new jobs, but has given the mining industry carte blanche permission to dump toxic waste into waterways. No power company is going to build new coal plants while natural gas is plentiful and cheap.

His trade stance is going nowhere and as I posted before is already hurting the cattle industry and will impact agriculture and will probably cause, first, a fall in food prices as the US market is glutted, then a sharp rise in prices as farmers go bankrupt or quit farming, after which your favourite people, Big Farma, will buy all that land for cents on the dollar, since they can afford to wait out the period of instability. No one will hurt more than the American people if Trump follows his isolationist agenda.

His cozying up to Putin while insulting allies (so far Australia, Sweden, Mexico, the entire EU, NATO) everywhere means no other country can trust the US, and that's more serious than you and other Trumpists seem to understand.

So what benefits are you seeing?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 07:04:54 AM
From the link meepmeep gave in the Trumpocalypse thread: (http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,602.msg66623.html#msg66623)
Quote
"I don't care what he does. I'm behind him 100 percent. Put it this way: If he became a dictator, and they said, 'We want him in forever,' he's my man. He's in. I'll never vote against him ... I love his power ... It's the power that does something to me."
Hi, dave. :wave:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 22, 2017, 07:33:45 AM
The weird thing is that Dave doesn't agree with those things.

His vote seems to have been entirely tribal.

For all his vaunted "maverickiness", Hawkins believes what his puppet masters tell him to believe.
Ken Ham.
Allan Savory.
Donald Trump.
And he's sufficiently shallow the contradictions between them never trouble him.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 08:09:02 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup. 

Right.  So you agree that Clinton (who, according to the article, lied to get out of trouble for having a private email server and receiving classified emails) is "not nearly as bad as" Trump (who, according to the article, lies to get someone else in trouble e.g. those "thousands and thousands of Muslims" in New Jersey cheering the fall of the towers)?

Or not?

Do you actually DISAGREE with the article?

Quote
I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up. 

But you provide no evidence of this, and none is provided in the article you cited.

Quote
Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

How is "I watched thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering as the towers fell" in the category of "self-promotion", Dave?  How is Obama wasn't born in US in the category of "self-promotion"?  And a gazillion more?

Those are lies in EXACTLY the OFFENSIVE "lying to get other people in trouble" category, which you apparently agree is much worse than the DEFENSIVE "lying to get yourself out of trouble" category.

You didn't read the article, did you?

Was your lie an offensive lie or a defensive lie?

Quote
Those are lies we can live with.

Speak for yourself.  I don't like any kind of lie, personally, but I would agree that lying to get other people in trouble, as Trump does repeatedly, is one of the worst kinds.

I do not know of any comparable lie by Hillary.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 08:11:17 AM
ninja'd almost to the word by Vox.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 08:26:07 AM
Unless, by "far worse liar", dave means that Hillary is not as CONVINCING a liar as trump.

I can agree with that, in  a way.

But this begs the question- Did dave actually vote for the person more capable of successfully lying?

:rofl:

'TRUTH MATTERS", indeed.
Trump is a convincing liar if you are a dumbass. Oh.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 08:30:08 AM
The weird thing is that Dave doesn't agree with those things.

His vote seems to have been entirely tribal.

Dave lives in Missouri. While he may not believe those things if he gives himself time to think about them, they certainly inform his reflex behavior just because it's the cultural norm in his region. That is, he is a tribe member in a region where tribal definitions include those things.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 22, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
The "show me" state.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 08:34:26 AM
I agree with this
Quote
That distinction between Clinton and Trump -- offensive vs. defensive -- has major implications for whether people view their lies as "legitimate" and morally acceptable, according to Matthew Gingo, a psychology professor at Wheaton College.

"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."
Don't know if you call this a "conclusion" or not.

Well, do you think that lying to get out of trouble is not nearly as bad as lying to get someone else in trouble?
Yup.  I also believe that Hillary had a nefarious agenda and lied to cover it up.   Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"

 Enormous difference.

 Those are lies we can live with.
First, is it possible that both have nefarious agendas? If so, is cheerleading Trump a good idea? Second, is it possible that Clinton did  not have a nefarious agenda but really just believes that the world is a giant meritocracy? If so, is calling her a liar actually the best way to attack that idea? 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 12:06:11 PM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Holy crap... I see where the confusion is coming from now.  This Washington Post article actually does contradict itself  and I missed it because I let myself be talked into the idea that "the Washington Post is TR approved news  and TR people are highly educated."

 Anyway, what I gleaned from the article is that trumps lies are in the category of "big fish stories" where he is trying to promote himself.  But Hillary's lies are in the category of "covering up a scandal" or so it seems.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 22, 2017, 12:31:57 PM
Where does it contradict itself Dave?

Hint: It doesn't. It says that Hillary's lies should not be perceived as as bad as Trump's, but they are, because they look like a bit of a cover-up.

How does saying that there are millions of rapists trying to get across the border "promote Trump's brand" how does lying about non-existent celebrations do that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 22, 2017, 12:56:42 PM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Holy crap... I see where the confusion is coming from now.  This Washington Post article actually does contradict itself  and I missed it because I let myself be talked into the idea that "the Washington Post is TR approved news  and TR people are highly educated."

LOL, I didn't read the article but now that I Hawkins'd it, I'm going to claim it's contradictory without explaining how and then toss in some non-sequitur bullshit about "approved news" and the education of "people here" because I realize the article I posted to support my bullshit doesn't and I need to throw everyone else under the bus. (Hi So-crates! LTNS)

Quote
Anyway, what I gleaned from the article is that trumps lies are in the category of "big fish stories" where he is trying to promote himself.  But Hillary's lies are in the category of "covering up a scandal" or so it seems.
And yet, as explained in this thread and the others in your OT shit-show, Trump's lies extend way beyond merely "big fish stories" about himself. But for some reason those lies "seem" to be the only ones you are willing to acknowledge and you are willing to pretend the demonstrable lies he tells about entire classes of other people don't exist. And for some other reason, you are willing to toss on the scale what Clinton "seems" (whatever the fuck that's worth) to be doing rather than what is actually factually demonstrable. Maybe it's the "manipulative bitch" factor and not knowing her place, amirite Dave?

But that asymmetry is perfectly acceptable ... (https://i.imgur.com/ufoeqaw.jpg)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 12:58:52 PM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Holy crap... I see where the confusion is coming from now.  This Washington Post article actually does contradict itself  and I missed it because I let myself be talked into the idea that "the Washington Post is TR approved news  and TR people are highly educated."

No, it doesn't.  It offers contradictory evidence.  It makes the point that the reason that people think that Hillary is a worse liar than Trump CAN'T BE because her lies are defensive (which they are) and Trump's are offensive (which they are) because in general, people find defensive lies "not nearly as bad" as offensive lies.

So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse.

It really would help your comprehension if you could actually read.


 Anyway, what I gleaned from the article is that trumps lies are in the category of "big fish stories" where he is trying to promote himself.  But Hillary's lies are in the category of "covering up a scandal" or so it seems.

um,  no. 

You are still missing the entire point of the article. 

It's about why people thought Hillary was the bigger liar even though Trump told more (and bigger) lies.

It doesn't actually reach a firm conclusion.  It says that if anything, people tend to be more forgiving of Hillary-type lies (self-defence) than Trump-type lies (getting others into trouble).  But does cite some evidence that it may be that Hillary was perceived as caring more about being believed than Trump and that it may have been this that made people more critical of her, than Trump, who doesn't seem to give a damn as long as his words have the effect he wants.

It does NOT say that Trump's lies are anything like "big fish" stories.  He does tell those, but far worse are his "getting other people into trouble" lies.  Like watching thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering the fall of the towers.  Like Obama not being born in the US.  Like Kovaleski "retracting" his article. 

As the article concludes:

Quote
But Trump is another story -- or rather, tells other stories. "He is unapologetic about saying things that are completely and verifiably untrue," DePaulo said. Experts find Clinton's lying habits to be more "normal" among politicians in this respect.

"I think Trump is borderline pathological," Serota said. "But the only person that would know that for sure is his psychologist."

So if there's any lesson it's that somehow people don't mind Trump's lies because they don't think he even cares whether we believe them.  I think Hillary cares about the truth, and, perhaps, occasionally, about hiding it.

Trump doesn't seem to care about the truth at all.  He'll say anything, blame anyone, get anyone into trouble, as long as it suits his current purpose.

Personally I find that incomparably worse.  Terrifying, in fact.

Have you ever read George Orwell's 1984, Dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 01:12:50 PM
Dave hasn't read the sequel, 1986, either. But I think that Trump's lies are indeed designed to cover up the truth. The.truth, for example, that immigrants and terrorists are not particularly big problems in America and that our institutions already do a pretty good job of dealing with the problems that do arise. The truth that the fake news is not actually fake. The truth that brietbart and info wars and wnd are in fact propaganda and the news they do report is largely actually fake. The truth that a majority of the country dramatically opposes the perspective and policies of the trump administration. Etc.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 01:18:25 PM
Have you ever read George Orwell's 1984, Dave?
No, he has not (http://talkrational.org/index.php?topic=732.msg50148#msg50148). 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 01:20:48 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 01:23:15 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
agenda 21.
Quote from: wiki
Agenda 21 is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to sustainable development.[1] It is a product of the Earth Summit (UN Conference on Environment and Development) held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 1992. It is an action agenda for the UN, other multilateral organizations, and individual governments around the world that can be executed at local, national, and global levels. The "21" in Agenda 21 refers to the 21st Century. It has been affirmed and had a few modifications at subsequent UN conferences.

also: http://www.glennbeck.com/agenda21/

About the Book

Quote
"I knew those men were our enemies, but they, like everyone else in the Republic, were nothing more than servants. Rule followers. They had no choice. But I did. I had a choice and I made it. I knew then and there that, no matter what happened, I would never go back. Never."

It was once named America, but now it is just "the Republic." Following the worldwide implementation of a UN-led program called Agenda 21, the once-proud people of America have become obedient residents who live in barren, brutal Compounds and serve the autocratic, merciless Authorities.

Citizens mainly keep their heads down and their mouths shut--but Emmeline is different. When the Authorities took her mother away, she started questioning the world around her. What happened to her mom? Why is everyone confined to grim living spaces and made to eat the same food cubes every day? Why was her own baby taken from her to be raised in the Children's Village? And are the rumors that somewhere out beyond the fence live those who got away during the Relocations--the so-called shadow people--really true?

When Emmeline's questions lead to the realization that she will never see her child again, she decides to escape the Compound with her partner, David, and their baby, Elsa. Fleeing the armed enforcers of the Earth Protection Agency, and facing the unknown for the first time in their lives, Emmeline and David run into the shadows in the desperate hope of finding something they'd only heard stories about from those who'd lived before the Relocations: freedom.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Dave hasn't read the sequel, 1986, either. But I think that Trump's lies are indeed designed to cover up the truth. The.truth, for example, that immigrants and terrorists are not particularly big problems in America and that our institutions already do a pretty good job of dealing with the problems that do arise. The truth that the fake news is not actually fake. The truth that brietbart and info wars and wnd are in fact propaganda and the news they do report is largely actually fake. The truth that a majority of the country dramatically opposes the perspective and policies of the trump administration. Etc.

And the truth that the problems he was elected to solve aren't actually problems.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 22, 2017, 01:35:26 PM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Holy crap... I see where the confusion is coming from now.  This Washington Post article actually does contradict itself  and I missed it because I let myself be talked into the idea that "the Washington Post is TR approved news  and TR people are highly educated."

 Anyway, what I gleaned from the article is that trumps lies are in the category of "big fish stories" where he is trying to promote himself.  But Hillary's lies are in the category of "covering up a scandal" or so it seems.
Yeah, as usual you gleaned only what the voices in your head made up. You haven't a clue what the article contains.

Of course multiply ninja'd, but I had to say it too.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on February 22, 2017, 01:36:09 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?

To install private email servers EVERYWHERE
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:12:53 PM
Lizzie says ...

"So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse."

Exactly. This describes me to a tee.

Anything else?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 22, 2017, 02:16:21 PM
Lizzie says ...

"So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse."

Exactly. This describes me to a tee.

Anything else?
If that 'describes you to a tee', then you are morally bankrupt, just like Trump.

Yes, there's more. You could respond to my last post.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:21:56 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
I'm morally bankrupt for wanting to save the country?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 02:26:46 PM
Lizzie says ...

"So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse."

Exactly. This describes me to a tee.

Anything else?

Well, I'm interested to know why you think that the relatively slight evidence of Hillary covering up for her carelessness (Comey's word) over the security of her emails in a somewhat lawyerly fashion is  worse than Trump's copious lies NOT simply of the "big fish story" type, although there are plenty of those, like that utterly stupid thing about the size of his inauguration crowd, but also much bigger OFFENSIVE lies, about Muslims, Mexicans, murder rates etc, plus attempts to cover up for those own lies of BY throwing other people under the bus (e.g. Kovaleski).

Basically, Dave, you are making no sense.

You said, earlier that you agreed that "defensive lies" were not nearly so bad as "offensive lies".  Now you ignore Trump's huge offensive lies and claim that Clinton's defensive lies were worse.

And ignore that Trump ALSO tells defensive lies (Kovaleski, but many other examples), and that even his defensive lies are offensive!

Talk about motes and beams.


Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 02:27:31 PM
I'm morally bankrupt for wanting to save the country?

No, for condoning everything done by the man you voted for, and slandering the woman you didn't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 22, 2017, 02:31:11 PM
Lizzie says ...

"So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse."

Exactly. This describes me to a tee.
You can't even figure out that the article says that people THINK hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's, and those people are wrong. A classic example of you presenting a reference which contradicts you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 22, 2017, 02:32:16 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/
Quote
George Soros, whose words and actions paint him as a diabolical personality, ...
lol
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 02:33:44 PM
I'm morally bankrupt for wanting to save the country?
from what?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
I view Hillary's lies as much worse than Trump's ... here's a great article explaining this for lots of voters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/why-clinton-is-less-trusted-when-trump-lies-much-more/?utm_term=.27e6d538f667
Holy crap... I see where the confusion is coming from now. 
Translation: I only just read some of that article. Whoooops!
Quote
This Washington Post article actually does contradict itself  and I missed it because I let myself be talked into the idea that "the Washington Post is TR approved news  and TR people are highly educated."
Try reading it again. The article most certainly does not "contradict itself". The only one doing that is you.
Quote

 Anyway, what I gleaned from the article is that trumps lies are in the category of "big fish stories" where he is trying to promote himself.  But Hillary's lies are in the category of "covering up a scandal" or so it seems.
:facepalm:

No. Trump's lies are not just "big fish stories". That is not what the article means by "offensive lies".

Keep trying.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 02:46:32 PM

Lizzie says ...

"So it finds an alternative explanation, which is that people seem to think that hers are more like a "cover-up" and "premeditated", than Trump's.  And that is what they find worse."

Exactly. This describes me to a tee.

Anything else?
Yes. Why are you lying?

What described you to a tee a few posts ago was this:
"Me lying to get myself out of trouble is not nearly as bad as me lying to get someone else in trouble," Gingo said. "People view defense as more legitimate, such as physical self-defense."

But now that you've realized you've goofed, and you had the types of lies mixed up (essentially saying that you prefer CLINTON lies to TRUMP lies- Whoops!), it's the "cover-up" that cuts the deal for you. Does the "tee" stand for "turnabout"?

What a hypocrite you are. And, like your Leader, you don't even care about your own inconsistencies. SAD!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 02:48:19 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/
Lol. By all means, tell us IN YOUR OWN WORDS what kind of "nefarious agenda" that word salad you linked to shows.

:popcorn:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 22, 2017, 02:51:14 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
That was LITERALLY what he did.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Clinton+nefarious+agenda%22&rlz=1C1MSNA_enGR662GR662&oq=%22Clinton+nefarious+agenda%22&aqs=chrome..69i57.224900j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Good call, Pingu! You know dave better than I do. :rofl:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 22, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
 ::)

Dave, Dave, Dave...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on February 22, 2017, 03:15:06 PM
So it appears part of her nefarious agenda was cozying up to Wall St.

Wasn't Dave just praising Trump for his  affect on the stock market rising?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 22, 2017, 03:16:06 PM
Yebbut that's different.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 22, 2017, 03:36:23 PM
Saving America ... One Franoogle At A Time.  :911:

So it appears part of her nefarious agenda was cozying up to Wall St.


Wasn't Dave just praising Trump for his  affect on the stock market rising?

Obviously Trump has done the opposite of cozying by hiring more than a half dozen Goldman Sachs alumni for head cabinet positions and signed a Rebublican bill and EO'd directives to kill Dodd-Frank so the investment banks can go back to fucking over the little guy's investments and reengage in large scale economy toppling speculation and completely neuter the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

(giving the fossil fuel industry everything they've paid for, including hamstringing the EPA, and the upcoming attempt to kill sanctions (written up by Trump's personal lawyer who is involved in this shit why exactly? :hmm: ) and let Exxon into Russia for the multiple billions they are salivating over is just icing on the cake.)

Cause, you know, Trump has a soft spot for the little guys. That he spent a career fucking over.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 22, 2017, 04:46:18 PM
Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people and his lies are in the category of self-promotion. "Look at me how great I am I'm going to save the country"
Ok Dave, how's this for an example of Trump's agenda "benefiting the people"?

Lies and pollution: Trump loyalists are willing to poison their bodies as well as their minds (http://www.salon.com/2017/02/21/lies-and-pollution-trump-loyalists-are-willing-to-poison-their-bodies-as-well-as-their-minds/)

Quote
Is pissing off liberals really worth poisoning the streams in coal country and swallowing outrageous lies?

In December, President Barack Obama authorized a new rule for the Office of Surface Mining known as the Stream Protection Rule. Simply put, the rule banned the dumping of mountaintop removal mining waste into nearby waterways by creating a 100-foot buffer around streams and the like, ultimately protecting an estimated 6,000 miles of rivers. Many of those rivers provide drinking water for neighboring towns -- for now. The new rule also mandated the restoration of polluted waterways and the replanting of trees.

One of Trump's first legislative acts as president was to kill the rule. After the Senate voted 55 to 45 to overturn the rule, the bill was sent to Trump for his signature. And while we were all scrambling to make sense of "Trump at his Trumpiest," the president signed it into law.
Just to make it clear for you: Trump has just made it legal for coal mining companies to trash rural waterways. This is significant because:


Quote
Apparently, clean tap water and formerly scenic vistas aren't priorities for red state, coal-country voters who would rather add cancer clusters and horrendous birth defects to the list of woes that go along with their disappearing coal jobs. What good are a few hundred more jobs if the workers filling those jobs, as well as their families, are dropping dead from poisoned drinking water and contaminated air? A 2011 study in the Environmental Research journal discovered an increased risk for "six out of seven types of birth defects -- circulatory/respiratory, central nervous system, musculoskeletal, gastrointestinal [and] urogenital" defects near mountaintop removal mines. The rate was nearly twice as high as that found in areas without mountaintop removal mines.
Italics mine. Presumably Dave, with your emphasis on healthy diet and lifestyle, you would not be in favour of doubling the rates of
birth defects. Yet you are in favour of Trump.


Quote
It's not clear whether Trump voters in deeply red states like West Virginia and Kentucky are aware of the fact that coal mining and Trump's terrible bill will surely add copious amounts of selenium, mercury and arsenic to the water supplies in those states -- in addition to the variety of toxins present in coal slurry, ash and other waste materials. I mean, they should be aware, simply based on past experience. Surely they couldn't have forgotten the 2014 disaster at Dry Branch, where 300,000 West Virginians were forced to go without clean tap water when chemicals used in coal extraction were dumped into the water supply. Sadly, this is just the beginning.
And Trump is fine with it happening again. How does this "benefit the people"?


Quote
Let's be clear. I get the fact that Trump voters love their guy partly because he pisses off liberals. But this is what they're willing to endure for the privilege of trolling Michael Moore and Nancy Pelosi? Really? Allowing coal mining outfits to dump waste into coal country streams will only damage coal country and the people who live there.

We all have a right to clean water and clean air. And we all have a right to protest against the polluting of what's known as "the commons" -- natural and scenic resources that belong to everyone, not just corporate polluters. But it's mostly Trump voters who will have to deal with the inevitable mining disasters, increased air and water contamination and subsequent health risks and birth defects that go along with it. Meryl Streep won't have to deal with nervous system or urogenital birth defects in her neighborhood due to coal mining pollution. Neither will Michael Moore, Barack Obama, Alec Baldwin or Rachel Maddow.

Yet coal country loves Trump anyway, even as he helps the the coal industry slowly choke out his voters.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 22, 2017, 05:58:17 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?

Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 22, 2017, 06:00:49 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?

Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
:rofl: Go Alex.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 22, 2017, 06:14:28 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?

Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
She is so far from a socialist it's ridiculous to call her that. She is a globalist, true. But of a dramatically less intensive fashion than the ones trump has put in charge of our state department and economic policy.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 06:17:26 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/
did you just google "nefarious agenda"?

OMG (((George Soros)))!

Have you checked out pizzagate yet?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 06:19:30 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
That was LITERALLY what he did.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Clinton+nefarious+agenda%22&rlz=1C1MSNA_enGR662GR662&oq=%22Clinton+nefarious+agenda%22&aqs=chrome..69i57.224900j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Good call, Pingu! You know dave better than I do. :rofl:
ninja'd
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 06:22:29 PM
Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
lol.   Old man in shack has it all figured out!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 22, 2017, 06:24:16 PM
Ooooh Dave!   Google "Spirit Cooking"!  Do it and tell us what you think!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 22, 2017, 07:24:49 PM
Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
jesus christ you are an idiot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 22, 2017, 07:29:14 PM
He's let himself be brainwashed to the point of having a brain about as flexible and responsive as a lump of bleached coral.

Photo of Dave's brain:

(http://www.nature.org/cs/groups/webcontent/@web/@northamerica/documents/media/brain-coral-640x400.jpg)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 22, 2017, 07:29:53 PM
certainly has no clue what 'socialism' means.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on February 22, 2017, 07:31:12 PM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?

Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.

Remove nefarious from the diminishing list of words David knows the meaning of.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 22, 2017, 08:28:28 PM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
No, Dave. What's funny is that you are transparently, blatantly changing your standards to suit "your side". You are the one who, unprovoked, demanded "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." and then started excusing it for someone in a much more important position of power.

You show that you never cared about "Absolute. Fucking. Truth."
I don't "demand" it ... as in "if you don't give it to me, I'm taking my toys and going home ..."  ... I "strive for" it in my own life ... and if I have to choose between "liar" and "pants on fire liar" in my presidential candidates ... then I'll pick the former.

Why is this basic stuff so hard for you people to get your heads around?

That's the fascinating part to me.
Bullshit. That's not even close to what you said in the quoted post.

You weren't talking about Hillary there.

You weren't talking about your own life.

You were demanding "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." from the other participants in that thread.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 23, 2017, 12:06:50 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 12:22:55 AM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?

I would have thought, like most people, you'd have drawn your conclusion that Hillary had a "nefarious agenda" from some evidence you had already had, and that you would then provide that evidence.

Well, I guess I wouldn't, in fact, because I know you are not like most people.  You draw your conclusions first, then google the "evidence" afterwards.

Which you then don't bother to read, but merely post a link.

And lie about having read.

And will not attempt to summarise.

Despite decrying others for "shooing me off to a link" without being able to say what it said "in their own words".  And demanding that people "sell you on" the contents of the link before you will deign to read it (which you never, to my knowledge, ever do).


Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.

Would be if true.  Where is your evidence that this is the case?

That's a rhetorical question by the way.  I know, and you know, that you have no such evidence. 

You are a liar and a hypocrite, Dave Hawkins.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 01:37:26 AM
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh fuck, I missed that one. This deserves a

:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


What's sad - rather than funny - is that you guys don't understand that - in spite of Trump's spin doctoring and inaccuracies - we still have a much more truthful president than we would have had if Hillary had been elected.

So yeah, this post applies.  The fact that you guys think it's hilarious just highlights the fact that you live in a world on the other side of the looking glass.
No, Dave. What's funny is that you are transparently, blatantly changing your standards to suit "your side". You are the one who, unprovoked, demanded "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." and then started excusing it for someone in a much more important position of power.

You show that you never cared about "Absolute. Fucking. Truth."
I don't "demand" it ... as in "if you don't give it to me, I'm taking my toys and going home ..."  ... I "strive for" it in my own life ... and if I have to choose between "liar" and "pants on fire liar" in my presidential candidates ... then I'll pick the former.

Why is this basic stuff so hard for you people to get your heads around?

That's the fascinating part to me.
Bullshit. That's not even close to what you said in the quoted post.

You weren't talking about Hillary there.

You weren't talking about your own life.

You were demanding "Absolute. Fucking. Truth." from the other participants in that thread.
Well yes, but not just other thread participants.  This is a universal principle that everyone must uphold.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 01:40:52 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.  If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 23, 2017, 01:47:33 AM
I'm curious, Dave:

Do you think that the devolution of power from the British monarchy to the Parliament was a bad thing?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 23, 2017, 01:58:26 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.  If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?

Interesting. So you are saying Hillary is in favor of small government? And that is a bad thing?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 02:06:53 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.  If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?

wtf?

You think the UK doesn't have a government?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 23, 2017, 02:16:41 AM
I've never heard Hillary advocating World Government, or open borders
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 23, 2017, 02:40:28 AM
So you want more power concentrated into the hands of a single man? (I'd say"person", but we all know what you think of women with opinions and ideas)? With less oversight from elected representatives?

You do understand that one of the things about trade is that its really useful to have a set of standards that everyone works to, so that something made in say Germany has the same safety specifications as something made in Britain, or Latvia, or wherever else?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 04:39:47 AM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Martin.au on February 23, 2017, 04:46:09 AM
I'd love to see Dave's take on British history.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 04:53:54 AM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?
Why "google" anything, dave? Why not explain your position in your own words, as you so often demend from us? Why "shoo us off" to a link you had obviously just googled yourself?

Don't you see that you are guilty of all the things you are supposedly against?

2 Samuel 12:7, dave.

Quote
Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
:facepalm:

"A socialist AND a globalist". Pretty sure you don't understand either of those words.

And Hillary wants to "eliminate" USA. Sheesh. What's next, dave? Chemtrails? Reptilians?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 04:57:19 AM
Did we ever find out what Clinton's "nefarious" agenda actually was?
Why yes.

http://rightlog.in/2016/10/trump-clinton-wikileaks-revelations/

How about telling us what you think it is, then?  You know, in your own words.  Let's see if you've actually read your own link this time.

WHAT was Clinton's "nefarious agenda"?

Or did you just franoogle "Clinton nefarious agenda" and that was the first hit?
Of course that's what I Googled.  Why would I Google something else?  Would you have preferred me Googling "Hillary Purple Cow"?
And you lept on the first hit and didn't even read the title.

Quote
Anyway, she's a socialist and globalist that wants to eliminate the country known as the USA.  That's pretty nefarious.
Interesting fantasy. False, of course. 

Unless you have some evidence?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 05:01:39 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.
Where did she endorse open borders? Oh, I know!! She never did.

Quote
If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?
Oh, we all see. Lunatic ultra-right-wing fantasies with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 05:03:25 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.  If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?
Wow.

You really guzzled down the Kool-Aid there, buddy.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 05:15:32 AM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 23, 2017, 05:18:25 AM
Do you think that just because the monarchy doesn't have much, if any, direct power, that the UK government has no teeth? Because that's what it looks like you wrote. And that would be a daft thing to say.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 05:20:42 AM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly
You cannot write or read properly.  She took your post literally. The fact that the obvious literal reading of your post shows its incredible stupidity is not her problem.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 05:21:02 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.
Where did she endorse open borders? Oh, I know!! She never did.

Quote
If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?
Oh, we all see. Lunatic ultra-right-wing fantasies with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 05:30:30 AM
If anyone has trougle understanding how dave can casually uphold such half-witted absurdities, without a shred of support, they need to understand where they originate from. They are not the product of his conservative background, or even of a possible association with 'alt-right' circles. All those things may or may not be a factor, but they are not the main drive behind dave's wacky beliefs.

Dave thinks all this crap because of his fundamentalist upbringing. That's pretty much it. He tries to shoehorn reality into the delusional pipedreams of Dispensational Premilenialism, as they were fed to him by his fundy background (and popularized by gurus like Hal Lindsey and La Haye/Jenkins).

It's all there. The "One World Government", abolishment of nations, "open borders"- They are all ideas referring to the eschatological nightmares his fundy mentors came up with (and managed to feed to their flock as a supposed "literal reading" of Scripture). Dave doesn't just believe in all that- he KNOWS it will happen. It's Prophecy after all. So he doesn't really feel he needs to justify all his interpretations of world organisations, groups and events, with actual evidence: It's DOGMA. It WILL happen this way. It SAYS so in the BIBLE, as anyone can check (dave never checked).

So, the "globalists" represent the Antichrist's hordes that will actively pursue Christians in the future (hence dave's obsession with having a "movable" house that "blends in with the surroundings"). Trump is the brave President Fitzhugh (or whatever he was called, from the Left Behind series), making a last stand against the Beast's advance. And Hillary? Obviously, the Whore of Babylon.

No need to support or even argue for all that. For dave, they're obvious. dave's mentality is pretty much the same as the one that fuels his YEC beliefs- Except that, here, instead of Henry Morris or Ken Ham, it's "Hal Lindsey said it, I believe it, that settles it".

Dave's a cultist. You can't argue with a cultist. You can only laugh at them.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 05:31:39 AM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly

So what DID you mean?  I'm struggling to make sense of it.

If a normally competent reader (me) cannot divine your meaning, then make it clearer, don't blame the reader.

ETA: especially when in your recent posts on this thread, you have yet again shown that you cannot even read the links you google.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 05:42:00 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
Open borders is one way.  If the globalists have their way - and they will have their way eventually - the nation state will eventually lose control and the national government will become less relevant over time.  At some point the important government will be "World Government" ... it's sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ... in the past, the royals carried all the weight.  Now they don't.  They are more or less pretty window dressing.  That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA.  They won't do away with the government per se ... they will just gradually remove it's "teeth" over time.  See?

Please explain the bolded.

Because to me, it reads like this:

Quote
it's ['the important government will be "World Government"'] sort of like what happened with your  British monarchy ...

From which I take it that "world government" being the "important government", presumably in the US,  has some analogy with the British monarchy.

Right?
Quote
in the past, the royals carried all the weight. 

So that maybe would be like once "the royals" in the UK were like the US government? Congress?  Dunno. Let's assume the government.

Quote
Now they don't. 

Well, they haven't since Magna Carta.  And since before Tudor times, the monarch has governed through parliament.  Charles I lost his head from trying to dispense with Parliament.  Our Civil War was between the Parliamentarians and the Monarchists.

The Parliamentarians won. And while the monarchy was later restored, under Charles II, monarchs thereafter knew better than to try to govern as despots.  Well, James II didn't, but he was deposed.

Quote
They are more or less pretty window dressing. 

Yes, thank goodness. Now we are governed through a government drawn from parliament.  The head of the government is the leader of the largest parliamentary party, so the party government is chosen by elections, in which the population votes for their parliamentary representative.

Quote
That's what the globalists like Hillary want for the USA

So if there's an analogy, what Hillary allegedly wants is for presidential power to become largely ceremonial, and for the Majority Leader in the House of Representatives to head the US government, with a cabinet drawn from members of Congress.

But that wouldn't be "globalist" at all. 

So wtf did you mean?

My conclusion could only be that somehow you thought that UK monarchs had ceded practical power to some supra-national government.  Brussels?  Strasbourg?  The UN?  What did you mean?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 23, 2017, 06:12:59 AM
If anyone has trougle understanding how dave can casually uphold such half-witted absurdities, without a shred of support, they need to understand where they originate from. They are not the product of his conservative background, or even of a possible association with 'alt-right' circles. All those things may or may not be a factor, but they are not the main drive behind dave's wacky beliefs.

Dave thinks all this crap because of his fundamentalist upbringing. That's pretty much it. He tries to shoehorn reality into the delusional pipedreams of Dispensational Premilenialism, as they were fed to him by his fundy background (and popularized by gurus like Hal Lindsey and La Haye/Jenkins).

It's all there. The "One World Government", abolishment of nations, "open borders"- They are all ideas referring to the eschatological nightmares his fundy mentors came up with (and managed to feed to their flock as a supposed "literal reading" of Scripture). Dave doesn't just believe in all that- he KNOWS it will happen. It's Prophecy after all. So he doesn't really feel he needs to justify all his interpretations of world organisations, groups and events, with actual evidence: It's DOGMA. It WILL happen this way. It SAYS so in the BIBLE, as anyone can check (dave never checked).

So, the "globalists" represent the Antichrist's hordes that will actively pursue Christians in the future (hence dave's obsession with having a "movable" house that "blends in with the surroundings"). Trump is the brave President Fitzhugh (or whatever he was called, from the Left Behind series), making a last stand against the Beast's advance. And Hillary? Obviously, the Whore of Babylon.

No need to support or even argue for all that. For dave, they're obvious. dave's mentality is pretty much the same as the one that fuels his YEC beliefs- Except that, here, instead of Henry Morris or Ken Ham, it's "Hal Lindsey said it, I believe it, that settles it".

Dave's a cultist. You can't argue with a cultist. You can only laugh at them.

Dave is also picking up a dose of trickle down Alex Jones type conspiracy nonsense that now overlaps with a good portion of the anti-vax, alt-med, and "natural" anything groups. Its the same buzzword bullshit, offered without supporting evidence let alone any other grounding in reality.

(eta- you actually alluded to that in the first paragraph, but there it is anyway)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 06:13:08 AM
The UN. He meant the UN.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2012/06/18/fundamentalists-the-illuminati-freemasons-and-the-un/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 06:13:40 AM
 OK maybe I wasn't clear.  The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't.  It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 06:14:18 AM
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly
This from the guy who just :airquote: read :airquote: his own link completely back-to-front.

This calls for not just a
:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


but also a
:ironicat:
:ironicat: :ironicat:
:ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat:
:ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat:
:ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat: :ironicat:

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 06:19:45 AM
It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.
Based on something other than the unhinged rants of Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, and thinkers of that ilk?

Seriously... what support can you possibly muster for this statement?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 23, 2017, 06:22:09 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear.  The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't.  It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.

When has Hillary ever said, or even hinted at, that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 06:22:31 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear.  The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't.  It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.
Will that be before, or after they establish a One World Religion, completely disarm all nations and sign a peace treaty with Israel? And when will the sky start raining fire and blood?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 06:27:15 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear.  The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't.  It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.

When has Hillary ever said, or even hinted at, that?
Now I'm really curious.
Hawkins seems to be fully on board with Dear Leader's declaration that all the "mainstream" news sources (NYTimes, WaPo, CNN, etc...) are "Fake News", and presumably to be ignored.

So where does he get his :airquote: information :airquote:  :dunno:

I thought I was being hyperbolic when I suggested Alex Jones, but now I'm not so sure.
Or it might just be the voices in his head.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 06:48:59 AM
Rush Limbaugh = "ilk"

Lol
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 06:49:37 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear.  The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't.  It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.
Without any rational reason or evidence for that belief. Amirite?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 06:52:03 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear. 

Indeed.  But instead of making yourself clear, you blame your readers.

The royalty in England used to have power... Now they don't. 

When would you say they last "had power"?

King John?  Charles I?  James II? William III?

Because what has happened over the millennium since 1066 is that monarchs have gradually ceded power to democratic institutions such as parliament.

This seems to me to be a good thing.

It appears to me that globalists like Hillary want to likewise eliminate the power of the US government in favor of a supposedly representative world government.

So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact. 

OK.

So what is this "supposedly representative world government" that you think Hillary and other "globalists" have in mind?

And were are you getting your information on this?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 06:57:38 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.

 Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 07:10:47 AM
So what is this "supposedly representative world government" that you think Hillary and other "globalists" have in mind?

And were are you getting your information on this?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Left_Behind.jpg)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 23, 2017, 07:11:41 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.

 Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.

So who are these "globalists", then? And which powers would you like to see the US exert and/or have more of?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 07:11:58 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.

 Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.
Did Great Britain had its power reduced?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 07:14:21 AM
Rush Limbaugh = "ilk"

Lol
Why is that "Lol" ?
You think Limbaugh is a credible news source?
What about Alex Jones?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: thatsneakyguy on February 23, 2017, 07:15:23 AM
Rush Limbaugh = "ilk"

Lol
:facepalm:

Add "ilk" to the list of words Dave doesn't understand....
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 07:22:18 AM
Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.
Without specifying who these "globalists" are, or what they've said that makes them "globalists", or what they've said about what power the U.S. has they want to reduce, this is just the gibberish of some idiot who's listened to too many Limbaugh/Jones/etc. screeds without knowing what they're talking about, but repeating, parrot-like, some of the words he's caught.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 07:24:40 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.
It is the OPPOSITE of the UK, Dave.

In England, then Great Britain, then the UK, power was gradually ceded DOWNWARDS, to directly elected members of parliament, each representing local constituents, analogous to your congressional districts.

You appear to be suggesting that Hillary wanted to cede power UPWARDS to some nebulous global government.

What would be "very much like the UK" would be reducing the power of the president and increasing the power of Paul Ryan.  He'd be the actual head of government, in fact, and would choose a cabinet from members of congress.

That is clearly NOT what you mean.

Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.

By the people they governed. 

Not by some mysterious supra-national entity.

Boy but you are ignorant.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 07:27:15 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.

 Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.
Did Great Britain had its power reduced?

Arguably, by the EU.

If Dave had used the reduction of the power of the UK parliament in favour of the EU parliament he might have a point.

But he's apparently too ignorant to even draw a vaguely appropriate parallel, let alone provide any evidence that Hillary wanted anything like the EU.

And the EU was pretty damn good for the UK in a lot of ways  :mad:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 07:28:54 AM
Boy but you are ignorant.
:sadyes:  Which is unfortunate but forgivable.
It's the militancy of his ignorance that's (yes) deplorable.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 23, 2017, 08:08:37 AM
OK maybe I wasn't clear.
Pretty much the only sensible thing that Dave has posted in this thread.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on February 23, 2017, 08:09:40 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
FIFY
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 23, 2017, 08:43:44 AM
I'm fascinated. How did Hillary intend to eliminate the United States?

Geez, Dave; things living on damp walls have more analytical abilities than you
The really jaw-dropping aspect of that claim is that Bannon, Trump's puppet-master, really does want to eliminate the United States. He has said so. He wants a complete melt down of government (not 'smaller government), he says he wants to be 'like Lenin', except that rather than a communist state, he wants to see a totalitarian white Christian theocracy ruling the former USA. He expects his desired revolution to 'wipe out racial fringes'.

Dave, you can google this ruthless fanatic and find out plenty of frightening things about his beliefs. Here's a quote to start you off:


Quote
"Darkness is good: Dick Cheney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney). Darth Vader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader). Satan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan). That's power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they're blind to who we are and what we're doing."[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon#cite_note-CNN-darkness-91)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon#Breitbart_called_far_Right



Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 23, 2017, 09:40:34 AM
I'd love to see Dave's take on British history.
Little island->golden age->fall
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 23, 2017, 09:46:40 AM
Rush Limbaugh = "ilk"

Lol
Sounds like an answer to voxrat's question of where Dave gets his information.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 09:48:52 AM
I'd love to see Dave's take on British history.
Little island->golden age->fall

Damn those pesky barons.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ExTo4FI7S-0/VX_sbTRTfbI/AAAAAAAAyws/xWFS-zRTAMs/s640/magna%2Bcarta%2B3.jpg)

:whyyou:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Peez on February 23, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
"So, nothing like the UK, then.  The opposite, in fact."

 No. It's very much like the UK.

 Globalists view the United States having too much power so they want to reduce that.  Just like your monarchy had its power reduced.
Literal lol!

Is anyone surprised that Dave is profoundly ignorant of British history and politics?  Anyone?  Of course we already knew about his complete lack of critical thinking ability, but it was not hard to guess that his arrogant attitude and lack of curiosity would leave him spouting nonsense when it came to the evolution of the parliamentary system of the UK.

Carry on.

Peez
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 23, 2017, 10:52:30 AM
I don't doubt the depths of Dave's ignorance about any subject, British history included of course, but whether he has the first clue about that subject or not, I think it's important to keep in mind here that he is also well known for sucking at analogies.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
 How's it possible to not get the comparison I was making?  It seems as though the only type comparisons or analogies that you all will accept would be something like "water equals water."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 01:31:41 PM
 Which of course tells us nothing.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 23, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
It would help if the things you were comparing were remotely similar.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 23, 2017, 01:34:15 PM
For example, in this case, you were comparing the shift from an authoritarian monarchy to a democratic parliamentary system with a shift from a democratic government to some sort of ill-defined global government. It's hard to know what the point of such a comparison might be.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 23, 2017, 01:44:48 PM
For example, in this case, you were comparing the shift from an authoritarian monarchy to a democratic parliamentary system with a shift from a democratic government to some sort of ill-defined global government. It's hard to know what the point of such a comparison might be.
is this ill-defined global government perhaps more democratic than the current US government?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 01:48:44 PM
It would help if the things you were comparing were remotely similar.
You mean maybe like "Government A" vs. "Government B"?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 01:56:07 PM
It would help if the things you were comparing were remotely similar.
You mean maybe like "Government A" vs. "Government B"?

No.  Like two processes that had something in common.

Unlike the democratisation of a monarchy vs the transfer of sovereignty to some supra-national body.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 02:09:36 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 02:14:25 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 02:16:30 PM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 02:21:05 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs

There are obvious anatomical homologues between birds and dinosaurs.

(https://christineren.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/birdcompl.gif?w=594&h=880)

You have failed to point out any homology between the process of democratising a monarchy and ceding national power to a supra-national entity.

I pointed out that the homology would be ceding power from Trump to Ryan.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 02:25:15 PM
OMG
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 23, 2017, 02:26:34 PM
WTFBBQ
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 02:28:40 PM
And where is your evidence that Hillary was going to do any such thing?

And don't google - just tell us what it was that gave you that idea.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on February 23, 2017, 02:32:55 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs

There are obvious anatomical homologues between birds and dinosaurs.

(https://christineren.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/birdcompl.gif?w=594&h=880)

You have failed to point out any homology between the process of democratising a monarchy and ceding national power to a supra-national entity.

I pointed out that the homology would be ceding power from Trump to Ryan.

Wrong. Birds developed from pterosaurs. See pterosaurnet.blogspot.com for more information.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 23, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
And where is your evidence that Hillary was going to do any such thing?

And don't google - just tell us what it was that gave you that idea.
Someone told him about Agenda 21, and the rest just writes itself.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 03:22:37 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs

There are obvious anatomical homologues between birds and dinosaurs.

(https://christineren.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/birdcompl.gif?w=594&h=880)

You have failed to point out any homology between the process of democratising a monarchy and ceding national power to a supra-national entity.

I pointed out that the homology would be ceding power from Trump to Ryan.

Wrong. Birds developed from pterosaurs. See pterosaurnet.blogspot.com for more information.
University professors developed from jellyfish. Read about it at professorjellyfish.com.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on February 23, 2017, 03:30:05 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs

There are obvious anatomical homologues between birds and dinosaurs.

(https://christineren.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/birdcompl.gif?w=594&h=880)

You have failed to point out any homology between the process of democratising a monarchy and ceding national power to a supra-national entity.

I pointed out that the homology would be ceding power from Trump to Ryan.

Wrong. Birds developed from pterosaurs. See pterosaurnet.blogspot.com for more information.
University professors developed from jellyfish. Read about it at professorjellyfish.com.
THEN WHY ARE THERE STILL JELLYFISH!

Are you even trying any more, David?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 04:03:13 PM
He hasn't been trying for quite some time now.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on February 23, 2017, 04:29:50 PM
He hasn't been trying for quite some time now.

He's been quite trying for some time?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 23, 2017, 04:47:40 PM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly

So what DID you mean?  I'm struggling to make sense of it.

If a normally competent reader (me) cannot divine your meaning, then make it clearer, don't blame the reader.

ETA: especially when in your recent posts on this thread, you have yet again shown that you cannot even read the links you google.

He's referring to the gradual power shift from any part of the government to any other part of the government, which takes place through small power grabs and small cessions of power. The point I think he's attempting to make is that he thinks Clinton would have worked towards such a world government - perhaps not to have it formed during her presidency, but to always move towards it.

Dave, you may consider the formation of Germany as a better metaphor.

And an article that summarizes the point of view (note: not an endorsement, but an example of the mindset that Dave is attempting to borrow from):
https://status451.com/2015/12/31/state-machines-and-machines-of-state/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 23, 2017, 05:04:37 PM
Dave's a cultist. You can't argue with a cultist. You can only laugh at them.
Don't worry. I'm onto that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 23, 2017, 05:42:38 PM
He hasn't been trying for quite some time now.

He's been quite trying for some time?
There was a time when he tried to defend his ideas. He was a snotty asshole who ran away eventually. And his memory was just as selective.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Wrong. Birds developed from pterosaurs. See pterosaurnet.blogspot.com for more information.
University professors developed from jellyfish. Read about it at professorjellyfish.com.
You are one dim bulb, Hawkins.
One dim bulb.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
He hasn't been trying for quite some time now.

He's been quite trying for some time?
There was a time when he tried to defend his ideas. He was a snotty asshole who ran away eventually. And his memory was just as selective.
He still does the snotty asshole thing.
The defending his ideas... not so much.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 06:26:02 PM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly

So what DID you mean?  I'm struggling to make sense of it.

If a normally competent reader (me) cannot divine your meaning, then make it clearer, don't blame the reader.

ETA: especially when in your recent posts on this thread, you have yet again shown that you cannot even read the links you google.

He's referring to the gradual power shift from any part of the government to any other part of the government, which takes place through small power grabs and small cessions of power. The point I think he's attempting to make is that he thinks Clinton would have worked towards such a world government - perhaps not to have it formed during her presidency, but to always move towards it.

Dave, you may consider the formation of Germany as a better metaphor.

And an article that summarizes the point of view (note: not an endorsement, but an example of the mindset that Dave is attempting to borrow from):
https://status451.com/2015/12/31/state-machines-and-machines-of-state/
Yes  and it's pretty sad that you're the only one here that could figure out what I was saying.  Brains on Darwinism I suppose.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 23, 2017, 06:48:55 PM
It's pretty sad that you can't respond to my posts. Is it because you have no answers, no way to excuse your hero Trump and his minions?

here's your godly new gov't at work:

Quote
A critically ill woman from El Salvador who was awaiting emergency surgery for a brain tumor was forcibly moved from a Texas hospital to a detention center by federal agents, raising concerns about President Trump (http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-all-things-trump)'s directive to more aggressively pursue people living in the country illegally. Sara Beltran-Hernandez, 26, a mother of two young children, was bound by her hands and feet and removed by wheelchair from Huguley Hospital in Fort Worth late Wednesday by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents who brought her to a detention facility in Alvarado, Texas.

"It is heartbreaking and inhumane,'' said Chris Hamilton, a Texas lawyer who tried to visit the woman Wednesday night at the detention center, where he was threatened with arrest for trespassing.

"This is unacceptable under our Constitution, and unacceptable from a standpoint of basic human rights," Hamilton said. "This woman is critically ill and in severe pain."

Beltran-Hernandez was transferred from the detention center to the hospital in Fort Worth this month after complaining of headaches, nosebleeds and memory loss. Doctors diagnosed a brain tumor and put her on a waiting list for emergency surgery, which was supposed to take place this weekend, according to her legal team. They were stunned when the agents removed her from the hospital Wednesday. 


"They had tied up her hands and ankles," Melissa Zuniga, another paralegal on the case, said in a text message. "I don't understand why at all when she's extremely sick and being moved in a wheelchair."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-hospital-seizure-20170223-story.html
What the hell, Dave? Do you approve of this cruelty, this horrible treatment of a sick young mother? Tying up her hands and feet when she's waiting for brain surgery and too sick to even walk? Is this your new version of Christianity?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 23, 2017, 06:59:21 PM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 23, 2017, 07:05:52 PM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
I can't figure out your answer, so I guess I'm an idiot. Or Whatever.

But it is true that you either hold wildly contradictory views or are inexplicably bad at explaining your position, so it is sometimes a challenge to pre-determine your take on any particular incident.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 23, 2017, 07:06:42 PM
Yes  and it's pretty sad that you're the only one here that could figure out what I was saying. 
But he's not.
You continue to fantasize that you "run circles around" everyone else.
You don't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 23, 2017, 07:10:53 PM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
You can't answer except by saying something cold, cruel, and against all Christian and humanitarian values. So you pretend you have an answer and I'm too dumb to see it.

You evil coward, Dave. What's your answer? 'Fake news'? All of the reports on this have good solid sources.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 23, 2017, 07:52:46 PM
I'm still reeling from the news that Dave seems to think that the fact that the UK monarchy has no real power means that there is no effective government in the UK.

Perhaps he hasn't heard of "parliament"?  Or Magna Carta for that matter?
And I'm still reeling from the news that you cannot read properly

So what DID you mean?  I'm struggling to make sense of it.

If a normally competent reader (me) cannot divine your meaning, then make it clearer, don't blame the reader.

ETA: especially when in your recent posts on this thread, you have yet again shown that you cannot even read the links you google.

He's referring to the gradual power shift from any part of the government to any other part of the government, which takes place through small power grabs and small cessions of power. The point I think he's attempting to make is that he thinks Clinton would have worked towards such a world government - perhaps not to have it formed during her presidency, but to always move towards it.

Dave, you may consider the formation of Germany as a better metaphor.

And an article that summarizes the point of view (note: not an endorsement, but an example of the mindset that Dave is attempting to borrow from):
https://status451.com/2015/12/31/state-machines-and-machines-of-state/
Yes  and it's pretty sad that you're the only one here that could figure out what I was saying.  Brains on Darwinism I suppose.
The problem is that your post is insipid and fails to answer the actual question being asked. Namely:

What, precisely, would Clinton be doing? What actions would she be taking in order to achieve this "nefarious" goal? What evidence do you have that she was doing so?

You might as well have posted just the word "gradually". It gives as much information and is that much clearer.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on February 23, 2017, 08:10:49 PM
It almost as though when he goes to type out his thoughts, they suddenly don't make any sense. Pity. I'm sure they are clear in his head.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on February 23, 2017, 08:54:03 PM
People, you are trying to explain differences and similarities to someone who groups ducks with fish.
Thanks, Mr. BirdsAreDinossurs

There are obvious anatomical homologues between birds and dinosaurs.

(https://christineren.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/birdcompl.gif?w=594&h=880)

You have failed to point out any homology between the process of democratising a monarchy and ceding national power to a supra-national entity.

I pointed out that the homology would be ceding power from Trump to Ryan.

Wrong. Birds developed from pterosaurs. See pterosaurnet.blogspot.com for more information.
University professors developed from jellyfish. Read about it at professorjellyfish.com.

Can anyone help Dave Hawkins with this?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 23, 2017, 08:58:52 PM
Yeah, sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_transplant
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 23, 2017, 11:00:03 PM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.

That's not how communication works, Dave.

If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better.

So far you have failed to explain - and relied on others to intuit - what you think that Hillary's "nefarious agenda" is.

You gave a terrible analogy that was totally uninformative - and then maligned people who tried to understand it, but failed.

You have still provided no evidence that Hillary had any "nefarious agenda" at all.  Instead, you googled "Clinton nefarious agenda" and gave us a link to your first hit, which you obviously had not read.  Having previously given us another link, which again you'd obviously just googled (maybe "Hillary Trump lies worse") and had not read.

You aren't taking part in a discussion here, at all.

If you want to discuss this, then try to communicate your argument.  And try reading the responses you get, and responding to them.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 24, 2017, 12:48:27 AM
Trump seems to have an agenda that actually benefits the people ...
By the way: http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,949.0.html

Another example of Trump's agenda benefiting the people. :clap:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 24, 2017, 01:01:51 AM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
If you can't tell us your answer (and address to the implications it has for your position), then you're a coward. Or worse.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: uncool on February 24, 2017, 01:50:27 AM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.

That's not how communication works, Dave.

If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better.

So far you have failed to explain - and relied on others to intuit - what you think that Hillary's "nefarious agenda" is.

You gave a terrible analogy that was totally uninformative - and then maligned people who tried to understand it, but failed.

You have still provided no evidence that Hillary had any "nefarious agenda" at all.  Instead, you googled "Clinton nefarious agenda" and gave us a link to your first hit, which you obviously had not read.  Having previously given us another link, which again you'd obviously just googled (maybe "Hillary Trump lies worse") and had not read.

You aren't taking part in a discussion here, at all.

If you want to discuss this, then try to communicate your argument.  And try reading the responses you get, and responding to them.



To be fair to Dave, I see him getting more than his fair share of uncharitable, if not outright malicious, readings from other posters here. On the other hand, Dave, it isn't nearly as prevalent as you often claim.

And I honestly can't fault him for maligning people who are responding with at best uncharitable interpretations. Many of them are maligning him similarly, though slightly more subtly.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 24, 2017, 03:20:47 AM
He's done a lot to deserve it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 24, 2017, 03:50:15 AM
"If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better."

This works with people who are actually seeking truth, yes.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 24, 2017, 04:01:03 AM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.

That's not how communication works, Dave.

If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better.

So far you have failed to explain - and relied on others to intuit - what you think that Hillary's "nefarious agenda" is.

You gave a terrible analogy that was totally uninformative - and then maligned people who tried to understand it, but failed.

You have still provided no evidence that Hillary had any "nefarious agenda" at all.  Instead, you googled "Clinton nefarious agenda" and gave us a link to your first hit, which you obviously had not read.  Having previously given us another link, which again you'd obviously just googled (maybe "Hillary Trump lies worse") and had not read.

You aren't taking part in a discussion here, at all.

If you want to discuss this, then try to communicate your argument.  And try reading the responses you get, and responding to them.



To be fair to Dave, I see him getting more than his fair share of uncharitable, if not outright malicious, readings from other posters here. On the other hand, Dave, it isn't nearly as prevalent as you often claim.

And I honestly can't fault him for maligning people who are responding with at best uncharitable interpretations. Many of them are maligning him similarly, though slightly more subtly.
That used to be my prevailing feeling too.  He's one against many. But after a long time I realised that most people are just responding to Dave treating other people, who are often undeserving or even trying to help him, with contempt and insults. Especially if they are women.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 24, 2017, 04:07:18 AM
"If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better."

This works with people who are actually seeking truth, yes.
Or just want to know what the blue buggery fuck you're dripping on about this time.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 24, 2017, 04:52:18 AM
Yes  and it's pretty sad that you're the only one here that could figure out what I was saying.  Brains on Darwinism I suppose.
Oh, we all figured out what you were saying, but some decided to draw attention to the ridiculous way you were saying it.

You are afraid of Hillary because you've unhesitatingly swallowed every right wing lie about her.  You have no evidence or argument for your claims. Amirite?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 24, 2017, 05:10:51 AM
I might have been able to guess that he was thinking Clinton wanted to cede control of some things to some kind of global government- perhaps an expansion of NAFTA into something more like the EU, but I am not aware of anyone proposing that at all- especially as freedom of movement is likely to be part of it and given that Mexico is part of NAFTA I don't see that happening ever.

Or we take his appalling poor analogy at face value, and that leads us to conclude a transfer of power from a single person to a cabinet made of senate representatives. I think that would be better- at least that way Bannon could be ousted by the people he represents, whereas now the only way he can be forced out is on Trump's whim, or if Trump is impeached and Pence gets rid of him.

I guess given Dave's hard on for Trump and his "strong leadership" he'd see that as a bad thing. Except it turns out that it was the first thing that he meant, not that. So his analogy doesn't work. Hence why people asked him what he meant.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 24, 2017, 05:19:18 AM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
I see three options.

You think its great and an example of Trump doing what he said he'd do, and therefore reveal yourself to be an uncaring racist scumbag.

You think it shouldn't have happened, but reports like this don't bother you because you're an uncaring scumbag, albeit one who might have a sense of shame, and therefore if enough incidents like this, or examples of Trump screwing over "the little guy" accumulate you may come to realise you made a mistake.

Or you think its an awful thing that happened and you regret voting for Tiny-Handed Orange Hitler. Which would show us that you might have some sense of shame.

Or is there a fourth option? Other than "fake news", which puts you firmly in category one as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 24, 2017, 05:36:48 AM
Yes  and it's pretty sad that you're the only one here that could figure out what I was saying.  Brains on Darwinism I suppose.
Oh, we all figured out what you were saying, but some decided to draw attention to the ridiculous way you were saying it.
Yeah, I mean TBH, I got that all he was really trying to convey with the analogy was a power shift, but when he's using one that was pretty much universally considered a good thing as the basis for comparison with one he's trying to imply would be bad, and considering how much of a dick he's been with all this Trump shit, how do you not make fun of that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 24, 2017, 05:37:46 AM
If you can't figure out my answer then you're an idiot.  Or worse.
I see three options.

You think its great and an example of Trump doing what he said he'd do, and therefore reveal yourself to be an uncaring racist scumbag.

You think it shouldn't have happened, but reports like this don't bother you because you're an uncaring scumbag, albeit one who might have a sense of shame, and therefore if enough incidents like this, or examples of Trump screwing over "the little guy" accumulate you may come to realise you made a mistake.

Or you think its an awful thing that happened and you regret voting for Tiny-Handed Orange Hitler. Which would show us that you might have some sense of shame.

Or is there a fourth option? Other than "fake news", which puts you firmly in category one as far as I'm concerned.
My guess would be it's bad but Hillary would have been worse. Not that he has provided even the slightest reason for thinking that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 24, 2017, 07:14:54 AM
"If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better."

This works with people who are actually seeking truth, yes.
Then assume you are just preemptively answering my questions. A good portion of the time people ask you what the hell you are talking about, it's because you've posted something that seems insane. For example, you have still not clarified your "biological iphone" comments which, for the life of me, appear to be you claiming that chickens could lay iphones, or maybe that homing pigeons could be as useful as smartphones. Now, I don't think that's actually what you are arguing, since both options are outlandishly stupid, but I see no other way of reading it. I've asked for clarification, which you have not given. Instead, look at what i do. If someone is stringing you along, I attempt to detail exactly the point they appear to be making. I never try and play coy with you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on February 24, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
"If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better."

This works with people who are actually seeking truth, yes.
Then assume you are just preemptively answering my questions. A good portion of the time people ask you what the hell you are talking about, it's because you've posted something that seems insane. For example, you have still not clarified your "biological iphone" comments which, for the life of me, appear to be you claiming that chickens could lay iphones, or maybe that homing pigeons could be as useful as smartphones. Now, I don't think that's actually what you are arguing, since both options are outlandishly stupid, but I see no other way of reading it. I've asked for clarification, which you have not given. Instead, look at what i do. If someone is stringing you along, I attempt to detail exactly the point they appear to be making. I never try and play coy with you.
Wouldn't mind seeing him take a stab and explaining that thought either, but my reading was that he was suggesting something like nanotech might eventually greatly simplify manufacturing. Which is probably true in the very long-term. Of course if and when we get there, technology will also very likely have solved any food problems Dave thinks he can save with his Davetopias, so it's a completely irrelevant suggestion.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 24, 2017, 08:12:07 AM
"If you write something, and people don't understand it, and they ask you to explain, or indicate that they've misunderstood, then you try to explain better."

This works with people who are actually seeking truth, yes.

Well, I'm seeking the truth about what you meant.  So go for it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on February 24, 2017, 03:07:52 PM
Always lookin' out for the little guy!

Reuters:
Quote
President Donald Trump signed an executive order on Friday to place "regulatory reform" task forces and officers within federal agencies in what may be the most far reaching effort to pare back U.S. red tape in recent decades.

Trump signed the directive in the Oval Office with chief executives of major U.S. corporations standing behind him including Dow Chemical Co (DOW.N), Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) and U.S. Steel Corp (X.N).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 24, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
"The front fell off" sounds less and less funny. :unsure:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 24, 2017, 03:13:05 PM
We're definitely all fucked.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Lugubert on February 24, 2017, 11:05:24 PM
Hi Dave, here's one nugget for you:

Fox News interviewed "Swedish defense and security advisor Nils Bildt" who supports Trump's statements on crimes in Swedish metropolises and suburbs.

Only problem is that all Swedish Government departments, agencies etc. including the armed forces deny any knowledge of this ex-convict.

ETA: More than one morning paper has the story. Here's one in English: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fake-sweden-expert-on-fox-news-has-criminal-convictions-in-us-no-connection-to-swedish-security/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 25, 2017, 12:49:44 AM
Wow.

So it seems that we finally have two clear examples of "FAKE NEWS!" within these last few days.


It's just not the exact kind of fake news you expected to see, is it dave? :D
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 25, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
Since we are discussing foreign policy related matters.

Dave, I've been trying to figure out what exactly Trump thinks was so terrible about the unilateral deal we and several other countries made with Iran concerning nuclear power, weapons grade material processing, etc., so I was hoping you could help me understand.

(setting aside the fact that his consistently inaccurate characterization leads people to believe "we gave them (tax-payer) money" when we actually returned frozen assets that were always theirs, having kept them once they tossed out the shill the US put into power by interfering in their sovereign county.)

The following reply he gave is the only time I am aware of he actually attempted to give an answer to this question, for all the number of times he has gone on and on about how terrible the agreement is.

Could you run your high speed mind around his reply to the question "what's wrong with the Iran deal?" and offer a simple translation of his answer to help out my Darwinism soaked mind ? I'm struggling with it so I'd appreciate your take on this. TIA

Quote
Look, having nuclear--my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart--you know, if you're a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world--it's true!--but when you're a conservative Republican they try--oh, do they do a number--that's why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune--you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we're a little disadvantaged--but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me--it would have been so easy, and it's not as important as these lives are, nuclear is powerful my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago, he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right--who would have thought? but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners--now it used to be three, now it's four--but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven't figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it's gonna take them about another 150 years--but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 03:33:38 PM
^ That could be use as a dictionary example of "verbal diarrhoea".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 03:34:20 PM
What Trump really needs is an automated hand that will smack him across the chops whenever he starts blithering.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 03:37:49 PM
or just a bullet to the brain.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 25, 2017, 04:35:46 PM
or just a bullet to the brain.
A terrible thing to say about anybody no matter how much you dislike them. You should be ashamed of yourself. Reagan went through this same sort of stuff when he got elected and talk like this culminated in Hinckley taking a shot at him.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 04:57:39 PM
Yabbut Reagan wasn't overtly trying to destroy the institutions that define our democracy.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 04:58:54 PM
It's nothing personal against Trump, he has unfortunately made himself unable to exist in society safely.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 05:00:07 PM
It's nothing personal against Trump, he has unfortunately made himself unable to exist in society safely.
"Nothing personal. It's just business."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 05:01:43 PM
or just a bullet to the brain.
A terrible thing to say about anybody no matter how much you dislike them. You should be ashamed of yourself. Reagan went through this same sort of stuff when he got elected and talk like this culminated in Hinckley taking a shot at him.
So I imagine you were similarly upset when Palin and friends basically got Gabrielle Giffords shot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 25, 2017, 05:46:23 PM
Yabbut Reagan wasn't overtly trying to destroy the institutions that define our democracy.
Oh?  Well listen to what this guy said about Reagan back in the day ...
Quote
Democratic Rep. William Clay of Missouri charged that Reagan was "trying to replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf." http://www.nysun.com/national/fears-of-trump-as-fascist-echo-similar-warnings/89476/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 25, 2017, 05:47:23 PM
And please name one thing that Trump is doing to overtly "destroy the institutions that define our democracy."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 25, 2017, 05:49:50 PM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
And please name one thing that Trump is doing to overtly "destroy the institutions that define our democracy."
are you serious?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 25, 2017, 05:52:52 PM
Of course I'm serious.  Name one.  And explain yourself.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 05:54:06 PM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.
No. He has tried to promote his own lies in the press, and tried to quash accurate reporting on things he doesn't want aired.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 05:54:13 PM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 05:56:59 PM
The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.
Thinking strategically, it would be better if he were removed by something other than a bullet.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 06:01:09 PM
The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.
Thinking strategically, it would be better if he were removed by something other than a bullet.
yes. Yes it would. Their are optimal and suboptimal outcomes. But none of the acceptable outcomes involves leaving a Russian tool whose agenda is the deconstruction of the administrative state in the white house. The administrative state is what protects the citizens from the worst abuses of power. Whatever. The line was crossed long ago for me and there is no more debate on whether this or that ridiculous lie and dangerous edict is really a terrible thing or not. While citizen's united is law, we are probably fucked no matter what we do.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 25, 2017, 06:07:28 PM
It would be better if his own party works towards getting him impeached, and there are plenty of rumours about that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on February 25, 2017, 06:11:25 PM
or just a bullet to the brain.
A terrible thing to say about anybody no matter how much you dislike them. You should be ashamed of yourself. Reagan went through this same sort of stuff when he got elected and talk like this culminated in Hinckley taking a shot at him.
Yeah, let's not pull too much shit out of your ass Dave. Hinckley was mentally ill and had become obsessed with Jodie Foster. The reason he wound up channeling thoughts about assassination was because Di Nero's character who saves her character in the movie Taxi Driver plots to kill a presidential candidate. He thought aping that character and committing that act would make Jodie see him as an equal and come to see him as a hero. He even followed Carter around for a while long before he took a shot at Reagan. Not that you might not have a point to make, but it had fuck all to do with what Reagan "went through" and "talk like that culminating".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 06:12:18 PM
It would be better if his own party works towards getting him impeached, and there are plenty of rumours about that.
I dunno. I am starting to think that he's broken the system a little too much for that to work. The election was manipulated by a hostile government and the platform is anathema to anyone with a brain. I have a very dim view of the odds of America surviving this in anything like the form it was last December.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 06:16:36 PM
The corporate interests ruling the GOP are not interested in negotiating any sort of compromise. The dems came late to that party if they are even at it yet. I just see an enemy now. I mean, I'm happy to talk about compromise but not with people who villify "liberals" or democrats more generally. Those people just need removed from society by whatever means. I do not care all that much what those means are although there are certainly less optimal means.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 25, 2017, 06:59:10 PM
I was pretty horrified at the prospect of Reagan succumbing to that assassination attempt and becoming a martyr. I was pretty sure St. Reagan would, in the end, have been a more formidable foe of democracy than the bumbling fool who eventually gave us Iran-Contra.

I feel the same - more so - about Trump.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 07:00:52 PM
Yup. That what I was getting at. Strategically, it'd be better to let the bastard hang himself.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 25, 2017, 07:04:01 PM
I was pretty horrified at the prospect of Reagan succumbing to that assassination attempt and becoming a martyr. I was pretty sure St. Reagan would, in the end, have been a more formidable foe of democracy than the bumbling fool who eventually gave us Iran-Contra.

I feel the same - more so - about Trump.
it would be best if he hung himself, true. But the kind of damage he is doing is pretty hard to undo.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 25, 2017, 07:07:08 PM
I was pretty horrified at the prospect of Reagan succumbing to that assassination attempt and becoming a martyr. I was pretty sure St. Reagan would, in the end, have been a more formidable foe of democracy than the bumbling fool who eventually gave us Iran-Contra.

I feel the same - more so - about Trump.
it would be best if he hung himself, true. But the kind of damage he is doing is pretty hard to undo.
That's for sure.
It will be still harder though - IMHO of course - if he's St. Donald The Martyr.

ETA: Sorry to be the language Nazi, but while S. Pinhead is AWOL, someone has to do it...
"hanged himself".   Laundry* is hung; people are hanged.

*(or sometimes horses, depending on the context)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 25, 2017, 07:08:57 PM
He really is the sort of fuckwit who is highly likely to hang himself, and not take that long about it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 25, 2017, 07:24:53 PM
Of course I'm serious.  Name one.  And explain yourself.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/25/bannon-trump-cabinet-cpac/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 03:01:17 AM
I dunno about all this ... but what I DO know ... is that this is the most perfect butt I've seen in quite a long time ...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1d/96/6f/1d966f19f035f0e6beb4c568a8066c67.jpg)

If anyone can top this one, be my guest!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 03:09:47 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 03:11:33 AM
The problem may be, Testy, that you're ignorant about freedom ... and about the principles which promote it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:02:30 AM
I dunno about all this ... but what I DO know ... is that this is the most perfect butt I've seen in quite a long time ...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1d/96/6f/1d966f19f035f0e6beb4c568a8066c67.jpg)

If anyone can top this one, be my guest!
Oh boy.

Looks like dave's been using the same password for all forums and social media, and someone hacked it.

Or someone has access to his laptop, and dave's stupid enough to have all his passwords saved.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:09:29 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.
So far, the law begs to differ.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.
Well, he now has two clear cases of LYING press, disclosed just recently (complete with misrepresented responses, and even fake sources).

What has Trump done about THAT, dave?

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.
And promptly kicked out an acting Attorney General, when she did what she had PROMISED to do from the start and upheld the law- even in opposition to the administration itself.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
See above. And see if you can figure it out.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 04:10:07 AM
There you go ASSuming again.  And you would be wrong.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:14:54 AM
There you go ASSuming again.  And you would be wrong.
Well if I am ASSuming wrong, then you're the only ass here (besides the one in the picture).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 04:20:04 AM
Why?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:34:25 AM
Because you're posting asses instead of sincerely responding to people's points. You're trying to demean and trivialize the discussion because you cannot cope with it.

Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:36:09 AM
You can start with the Fake Fox News story if you like.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 26, 2017, 04:36:15 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

Prove you wrong? That's easy ... here you go ...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:39:01 AM
Or tell us your opinion on the DAPL. or the EPA.

Just grab a string end and follow it. See where that leads.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:39:27 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.
So far, the law begs to differ.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.
Well, he now has two clear cases of LYING press, disclosed just recently (complete with misrepresented responses, and even fake sources).

What has Trump done about THAT, dave?

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.
And promptly kicked out an acting Attorney General, when she did what she had PROMISED to do from the start and upheld the law- even in opposition to the administration itself.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
See above. And see if you can figure it out.

Aaaaand here you go.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on February 26, 2017, 04:41:25 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
Behave=Ask awkward questions we don't have a coherent answer to. Seriously you banned the BBC, but Breitbart are allowed in? Fucking hell Dave, even you should see that's fucked up.
Quote
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
Unless they're brown. You do know they detained Muhammed Ali's son and wife, and only let her go because she showed them a photo of her with him. He didn't have one so they questioned him for several hours. I'm pretty sure that contravenes the "Liberty" part of those inalienable rights.

My grandfather was a Canadian soldier and was questioned when he was travelling to Belgium- you know the sort if thing, what's the purpose of your visit, etc.

"When did you last visit?"
"1945"
"Pass, friend".
Quote
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves
I'd say attacking the federal government by weakening environmental protections , bollocksing up foreign policy, ignoring the intelligence community in favour of a right-wing demagogue, attacking the department of justice- like firing an attourney general for upholding her oath of office when it conflicts with what the WH want- all harm the ability of the government to do things states can't do themselves. Or do you think its acceptable that, say, lax environmental protection in Arkansas means you can dump whatever you like in the Mississippi, wiping out swathes of life in Louisiana, and making that water unfit for human consumption? Or perhaps it would be better to have a basic standard that all states have to adhere to?

Similarly isn't everyone entitled to the same basic protections under the law, regardless of what state they live in?  I seem to remember you fought a war over that issue. 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 26, 2017, 04:48:44 AM
Dave thinks (or pretends to think) that the only way to fight against the principles of democracy is to storm the parliament with troops and ban elections (you know, the way some of the 'alt-media' would try to scare him into believing Obama was about to do).

If you don't do that, well, I guess you're all about freedom.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 26, 2017, 04:49:55 AM
He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.
Right.
Completing the plan of his treasonous political party that refused to act on the appointment of the previous president's appointment.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on February 26, 2017, 04:52:34 AM
He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.
Right.
Completing the plan of his treasonous political party that refused to act on the appointment of the previous president's appointment.

No fucking kidding. How that blatant obstructionism and violation of the constitution was allowed to stand I've not understood.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 26, 2017, 06:05:01 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration
Pretty obvioously not, as the thrid branch of goverment ahs decreed.  That my change (I be it won't0 but so fdar not legal.

Quote
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- 3 independent branches of government

How has Trump attacked any of these?

Trump Takes Aim at the Independent Judiciary (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/the-gop-front-runner-takes-aim-at-the-independent-judiciary/485087/):
Quote
recent weeks, Trump has called for investigating Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos--who he claims has been "getting away with murder, tax-wise" and has a "huge antitrust problem"--because of the Post's critical coverage of his campaign. Trump's close ally, Roger Stone, has said that, "when Donald Trump is president, he should turn off" CNN's "FCC license." Trump has repeatedly called the journalists who cover him "scum" and barred news organizations that cover him critically from attending his public events.

Now he's going after the judiciary. In San Diego over the weekend, Trump publicly attacked Gonzalo Curiel, the judge who is hearing the lawsuit against Trump University. After first noting that Curiel "happens to be Mexican" (he was actually born in Indiana to Mexican immigrant parents), Trump declared that, "It is a disgrace. It is a rigged system ... This court system, the judges in this court system, federal court. They ought to look into Judge Curiel because what Judge Curiel is doing is a total disgrace."

To understand how extraordinary Trump's attack on Curiel is, it's worth remembering what happened when Barack Obama, in his 2010 State of the Union address, criticized the Supreme Court's ruling in the Citizens United case. As the justices looked on, Obama declared that, "With all due deference to separation of powers, last week the Supreme Court reversed a century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests--including foreign corporations--to spend without limit in our elections." Rush Limbaugh said Obama's comments reflected a "profound disrespect for the separation of powers" and "a thugocracy style" befitting a "banana republic." Chief Justice John Roberts himself called Obama's remarks "very troubling."

But Obama didn't attack the justices' integrity. And he didn't suggest they be punished. Trump, by contrast, called Curiel a "disgrace," who is presiding over a "rigged system." And he suggested that, "they ought to look into Judge Curiel.

Neil Gorsuch, Trump's Own Supreme Court Pick, Calls President's Attacks on Judiciary 'Demoralizing' (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/neil-gorsuch-trump-s-own-supreme-court-pick-calls-president-n718566):

Quote
President Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court has called the president's recent criticism of the judiciary "disheartening" and "demoralizing," a spokesman for the nomination confirmation team told NBC News on Wednesday.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Connecticut, said Wednesday that he spoke with U.S. Appeals Court Judge Neil Gorsuch and that Gorsuch "certainly expressed to me that he is disheartened by the demoralizing and abhorrent comments made by President Trump about the judiciary."

A spokesman for the team shepherding Gorsuch's nomination in the Senate confirmed Blumenthal's version of the conversation to NBC News and said Gorsuch did use the words "disheartening" and "demoralizing."

Despite that confirmation from Gorsuch's camp, Trump on Thursday morning took to Twitter to attack Blumenthal, writing: "Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who never fought in Vietnam when he said for years he had (major lie),now misrepresents what Judge Gorsuch told him?"

(Note Trump's lie in the last paragraph.)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 26, 2017, 06:56:09 AM
Quote
...  Trump on Thursday morning took to Twitter to attack Blumenthal, writing: "Sen. Richard Blumenthal, who never fought in Vietnam when he said for years he had (major lie),now misrepresents what Judge Gorsuch told him?"

(Note Trump's lie in the last paragraph.)
Note, too, Trump's interjection of the completely irrelevant reference to Blumenthal's VietNam story.  How about appending to every occurrence of the name "Trump" in the news, the modifying clause: "who has boasted about multiple instances of sexual assault" ?

Fair enough, Hawkins? 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 26, 2017, 09:49:25 AM
The First 100 Lies: The Trump Team's Flurry Of Falsehoods (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-administration-lies-100_us_58ac7a0fe4b02a1e7dac3ca6)
Quote
To say that President Donald Trump has a casual relationship with the truth would be a gross understatement. He has repeatedly cited debunked conspiracy theories, pushed voter fraud myths, and embellished his record and accomplishments. The barrage of falsehoods has been so furious that journalists have taken to issuing instant fact-checks during press conferences and calling out false statements during cable news broadcasts.
...
The Huffington Post tracked the public remarks of Trump and his aides to compile a list of 100 incidents of egregious falsehoods. Still, it is likely the administration has made dozens of other misleading and exaggerated claims.
(go to link to see the list).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 26, 2017, 09:58:56 AM
Dave, what's your opinion on the DAPL*?

*Dakota Access Pipeline, in case you've been ignoring all references to it because you didn't recognise the acronym.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 26, 2017, 11:12:00 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

Lol. OK.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on February 26, 2017, 11:55:19 AM
How about this, Dave?

Is this another 'good thing' Trump has done?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39070164
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 26, 2017, 02:33:12 PM
(http://www.adweek.com/core/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/new-york-times-truth-1.jpg)

and let's not forget...
The truth ... matters !
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 26, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
I dunno about all this ... but what I DO know ... is that this is the most perfect butt I've seen in quite a long time ...

If anyone can top this one, be my guest!
Since that's obviously not Trump's butt, I fail to see what it has to do with this topic. You're the one who always bitches about people posting off-topic in "your threads", sunshine.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 26, 2017, 11:53:44 PM
I dunno about all this ... but what I DO know ... is that this is the most perfect butt I've seen in quite a long time ...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1d/96/6f/1d966f19f035f0e6beb4c568a8066c67.jpg)

If anyone can top this one, be my guest!
So would Trump be the ass in this analogy?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 27, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

You really don't know?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on February 27, 2017, 12:24:25 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
I'll start with this one. Trump, even before entering the scene, routinely used SLAPP lawsuits to try and silence people when they said things he didn't like. (example (http://www.anti-slapp.org/recent/2215/))
He threatened to do the same during his campaign. (example (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303207-trump-lashes-out-over-illegal-tapes))
Melania has done the same already
He's also stated he intends to "open up" libel laws (one would assume he means he intends to actually CREATE federal level libel laws) which would make such SLAPP suits easier

If anyone else would like to focus on another:
Quote

- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on February 27, 2017, 12:38:27 AM
actually declaring the press the enemy of the american people?

eta: so far we've already had murders and other hate crimes against the people he's vilified. How long will it be before some Kansas or Florida idiot goes after reporters or a news organization?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 27, 2017, 12:41:27 AM
So would Trump be the ass in this analogy?
No. That ass is quality. Nothing like Trump. And FFS don't start giving lead-ins to anal jokes. :p
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 27, 2017, 01:07:29 AM
actually declaring the press the enemy of the american people?

eta: so far we've already had murders and other hate crimes against the people he's vilified. How long will it be before some Kansas or Florida idiot goes after reporters or a news organization?
Or a judge? (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/05/politics/trump-twitter-attacks-judge/)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on February 27, 2017, 01:23:11 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/835817351178301440

From the comments:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 27, 2017, 03:09:06 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

You really don't know?
No I don't.  Feel free to enlighten me.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on February 27, 2017, 03:40:16 AM
Dave's theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 27, 2017, 04:34:49 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

You really don't know?
No I don't.  Feel free to enlighten me.

Well, a couple of people have given examples of his attacks on freedom of the press.

I'll take

Quote
- the proposition that all men are created equal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yh0jAxOxGE
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 27, 2017, 04:43:28 AM

I'll take

Quote
- the proposition that all men are created equal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yh0jAxOxGE
Not to mention the racial discrimination in his real estate dealings in the 1970's
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 27, 2017, 04:48:00 AM

I'll take

Quote
- the proposition that all men are created equal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yh0jAxOxGE
Not to mention the racial discrimination in his real estate dealings in the 1970's

And his claim that a judge of Mexican heritage was unable to conduct a hearing fairly.

That's an attack of sorts on the three branches of government, amplified by his claims that judges have no right to block his executive orders.

He doesn't seem that keen on the legislature either.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on February 27, 2017, 04:50:59 AM
And he's all over the shop on federalism:

Quote from: The Daily Wire
Trump was asked, "In your opinion, what are the top three functions of the United States government?"

Trump answered, "Well, the greatest function of all by far is security for our nation. I would also say health care, I would also say education."

Moderator Anderson Cooper didn't let Trump off the hook, asking, "So in terms of federal government role, you're saying security. But you also say health care and education should be provided by the federal government."

Trump, using his Very Good Brain, responded, "Those are two of things. Yeah, sure. There are obviously many things. Housing, providing great neighborhoods."

Cooper reminded Trump that he had said he would prefer to eradicate the Department of Education, pressing, "Aren't you against the federal government's involvement in education? Don't you want it to devolve to states?"

Trump blustered, "No, I want it to go to states. Yeah, absolutely,"

Cooper, attempting to make sense out of Trump's positions, asked, "So that's not part of what the federal government should do?"

Trump, fumbling, "Well, the federal government. But the concept of the country is that we have to have education within the country."

Cooper: "And federal health care run by the federal government?"

Trump: "Health care. We need health care for our people. Obamacare is a disaster."

Cooper: "That is something that the government should be doing?"

Trump: "The government can lead it but it should be privately done."

Here are the responsibilities of the federal government, as outlined in the Constitution by people with brains bigger than Trump's, from Article 1, Section 8:

   
Quote
Collect taxes, pay debts, borrow money, regulate commerce, establish uniform naturalization laws, establish uniform bankruptcy laws, coin money, establish punishment for counterfeiters, establish post offices and roads for delivering the mail, provide laws for copyrights and patents, constitute tribunals accountable to the Supreme Court, establish punishment for crimes committed at sea, declare war, raise and support various branches of the military, establish a national capital, make laws.

Nothing in the Constitution of the United States asserts that the federal government is responsible for providing health care or education for its citizens.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4529/trump-asked-three-functions-federal-government-his-hank-berrien

And before you claim "fake news", Dave, check the video.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on February 27, 2017, 04:56:13 AM
He has acted within the law regarding immigration.

He has not tried to get rid of the press as some have alleged ... only get rid of LYING in the press.

He has acted within the law to appoint a Supreme Court justice.

What institution has Trump attacked?  Transgender bathrooms?  CNN?
Departments of:
State
Labor
Commerce
Education
Environmental Protection
Justice
Intelligence

and all the rest.

Maybe these are good things in your mind. They are not in mine. They are actually unacceptable and I take them as an act of war on the american citizens. Take it however you want. The dude needs removed by whatever means will do the job.

How are those things "institutions that define our democracy"?  I think of "institutions which define out democracy" as things like ...

- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press (as in "no, we won't send the Gestapo to shut you down, but we MAY not welcome you to press briefings if you don't behave")
- the proposition that all men are created equal
- that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights
- 3 independent branches of government
- federalism (which means that the federal government only does functions which the states CANNOT DO themselves

Etc

How has Trump attacked any of these?

You really don't know?
No I don't.  Feel free to enlighten me.
I and several others have. You ignored all of them.

Run away!  Run away!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on February 28, 2017, 02:52:12 AM
H.L Mencken, July 26 1920, Baltimore Evening Sun:

" As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron"

Prescient, or what?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on February 28, 2017, 03:21:37 AM
OK I watched the "Trump on Genes" video ... I can see your concern ... I think he has a point because it's obvious from animal breeding that certain traits can be selected for and of course the same thing occurs in humans ... the problem with this sort of thinking - I believe - comes if we start believing what the Darwinists want us to believe ... that "your ancestor and mine was somehow less than human" ... because if we believe that, then it is almost irresistible to believe that "perhaps in the future our descendants can be superhuman" ... which is a belief that definitely has taken hold at various times in human history and the results have been disastrous.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on February 28, 2017, 03:34:25 AM
OK I watched the "Trump on Genes" video ... I can see your concern ... I think he has a point because it's obvious from animal breeding that certain traits can be selected for and of course the same thing occurs in humans ... the problem with this sort of thinking - I believe - comes if we start believing what the Darwinists want us to believe ... that "your ancestor and mine was somehow less than human" ... because if we believe that, then it is almost irresistible to believe that "perhaps in the future our descendants can be superhuman" ... which is a belief that definitely has taken hold at various times in human history and the results have been disastrous.
No. You missed the point.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Peez on February 28, 2017, 09:19:20 AM
OK I watched the "Trump on Genes" video ... I can see your concern ... I think he has a point because it's obvious from animal breeding that certain traits can be selected for and of course the same thing occurs in humans ... the problem with this sort of thinking - I believe - comes if we start believing what the Darwinists want us to believe ... that "your ancestor and mine was somehow less than human" ... because if we believe that, then it is almost irresistible to believe that "perhaps in the future our descendants can be superhuman" ... which is a belief that definitely has taken hold at various times in human history and the results have been disastrous.
lol!  Dave still thinks that he understands evolution.  Cute.

Peez
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on March 01, 2017, 12:47:37 PM
Dave, you could round out your awarenes somewhat by reading this (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/1/1639035/-Here-s-The-Scam-That-Makes-Conservatives-Believe-The-Mainstream-Media-Is-Lying)

You're being manipulated, chum. (well, so are we all, in principle, but conservatives are much more heavily targeted, and much less likely to use due skepticism )
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 01, 2017, 03:25:54 PM
'He's a Performance Artist Pretending to be a Great Manager' (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/hes-a-performance-artist-pretending-to-be-a-great-manager-214836)

Tl/dr:he is running the country like a business, and he's a lousy businessman.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 01, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
They way someone else put it is that he's treating the presidency as a performance, rather than as a serious job.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 04, 2017, 03:48:07 AM
Dave, you could round out your awarenes somewhat by reading this (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/1/1639035/-Here-s-The-Scam-That-Makes-Conservatives-Believe-The-Mainstream-Media-Is-Lying)

You're being manipulated, chum. (well, so are we all, in principle, but conservatives are much more heavily targeted, and much less likely to use due skepticism )
Of course I'm being manipulated ... somewhat ... we all are.  But some folks are being manipulated more than others.  These days I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.  As for skepticism, I think I have a healthy amount of skepticism ... for example, I've been propagandized for years here at TR about all kinds of things, yet I don't buy them because they are not evidence based.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 04, 2017, 03:52:28 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on March 04, 2017, 05:01:14 AM
You're a racist orange misogynist with tiny hands who throws temper tantrums at 3am when people take the piss?

Well I guess if the boot fits...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 04, 2017, 05:10:38 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.
That's for damn sure.
Quote
...  he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.
::) So much for:
Guys.

TRUTH MATTERS.

 Absolute.  Fucking.  Truth.

 Not 90% truth and 10% lie.  Not 95 and 15.  Not 99 and 1.

100% truth. Needs to be our goal.

 Without that as our goal, society will crumble.
Quote
But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
How convenient. You simply define what you want to believe as "right", and problem solved!

The guy has been found to be the lyingest presidential contender (let alone president) by all the fact-checkers since fact-checking became a thing.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 04, 2017, 05:56:56 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Small stuff?

So what about DAPL, Dave? You think what Trump is doing there is 'the right thing'?
What about stripping 93% of Great Lake clean-up funds? Is that the right thing to do?*
How about separating immigrant children from their mothers so the mothers can be detained longer and the kids are shunted into essentially orphanages for the duration? Is that good?

*Canada may have to get involved in this. We have joint signed legal treaties about those shared fresh water bodies.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 06:05:14 AM
Dave, you could round out your awarenes somewhat by reading this (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/1/1639035/-Here-s-The-Scam-That-Makes-Conservatives-Believe-The-Mainstream-Media-Is-Lying)

You're being manipulated, chum. (well, so are we all, in principle, but conservatives are much more heavily targeted, and much less likely to use due skepticism )
Of course I'm being manipulated ... somewhat ... we all are.  But some folks are being manipulated more than others.  These days I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.  As for skepticism, I think I have a healthy amount of skepticism ... for example, I've been propagandized for years here at TR about all kinds of things, yet I don't buy them because they are not evidence based.
:facepalm:

I don't think you understand what "skepticism" means.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 06:08:07 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him. 
Theeeeeere we go. Who didn't see that one coming?
Quote
No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.
No argument there.
Quote
My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Except the definitions for "small" and "really important" in that claim, are subject to your personal whims and preferences.

Why don't you tell us about some of the "really important stuff" Donald has done, and compare them to the "small" stuff?

Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 06:11:08 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Small stuff?

So what about DAPL, Dave? You think what Trump is doing there is 'the right thing'?
What about stripping 93% of Great Lake clean-up funds? Is that the right thing to do?*
How about separating immigrant children from their mothers so the mothers can be detained longer and the kids are shunted into essentially orphanages for the duration? Is that good?

*Canada may have to get involved in this. We have joint signed legal treaties about those shared fresh water bodies.
And he can't even use the "AMERICAN JOBS!" excuse anymore.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/03/04/president-trump-keystone-pipeline-american-steel/98734238/

But of course, dave doesn't really care.

"Run away" with the Native Americans? Hah! If he lived back then, he would probably be one of those passing the blankets.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 04, 2017, 06:16:10 AM
But of course. Dave's a modern Arnaud Amalric - Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 04, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Lol. God this is perfect.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 04, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Lol. God this is perfect.
sigworthy, even!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 04, 2017, 03:01:54 PM
Memescape? :grin:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on March 04, 2017, 03:56:06 PM
Dave, did Obama wiretap YOUR phones too?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 04, 2017, 03:57:25 PM
Show me on the wires where he touched you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 04, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
But of course. Dave's a modern Arnaud Amalric - Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
No. Amalric was competent.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 04, 2017, 05:41:03 PM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Lol. God this is perfect.
Why thank you for recognizing that!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 04, 2017, 05:41:44 PM
Dave, did Obama wiretap YOUR phones too?
Why would he wiretap MY phones?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 04, 2017, 06:09:03 PM
Dave, did Obama wiretap YOUR phones too?
Why would he wiretap MY phones?
Because you're so much like Trump.
Duh.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 04, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him.  No, I'm not anywhere near as successful financially as him of course ... but as you guys yourselves have observed, I do have some of the same thinking patterns.  My assessement of Donald Trump remains that I think he's a good guy overall.  Yes, he's a salesman.  Yes, he's a bit too fast and loose with the truth at times.  But I think he gets it right on the really really important stuff, which is why I forgive the small stuff.
Lol. God this is perfect.
Why thank you for recognizing that!
no problem at all.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on March 04, 2017, 07:52:30 PM
Dave, did Obama wiretap YOUR phones too?
Why would he wiretap MY phones?
Because you're so much like Trump.
Duh.
Seriously, Dave. You are the most profoundly stupid person I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. It's been a truly wonderful experience. Thank you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 11:16:02 PM
So dave! How 'bout this for "working with Nature"?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/us/politics/trump-vehicle-emissions-regulation.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=newsevent&rref=collection%2Fnews-event%2Fdonald-trump-white-house

Is that another one of those "small" things you can forgive?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 11:32:59 PM
Here's another "small" thing for you to forgive, dave:

Trump reverses pledge to mandate U.S. steel for Keystone Pipeline. A direct beneficiary is a Russian oligarch with close ties to Vladimir Putin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-reverses-pledge-to-mandate-us-steel-for-keystone_us_58bbae99e4b0fa65b844b451)

I guess that, by "American jobs", Donald actually meant "Abramovich jobs". Hey. just a simple typo, right?

Let's just focus on the REALLY important stuff now, right?

RIGHT?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 04, 2017, 11:40:08 PM
I'm tempted to start a "Small Things We Can Forgive" thread. But this poor forum has suffered enough, I think.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 05, 2017, 02:17:37 AM
Dave, you could round out your awarenes somewhat by reading this (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/1/1639035/-Here-s-The-Scam-That-Makes-Conservatives-Believe-The-Mainstream-Media-Is-Lying)

You're being manipulated, chum. (well, so are we all, in principle, but conservatives are much more heavily targeted, and much less likely to use due skepticism )
Of course I'm being manipulated ... somewhat ... we all are.  But some folks are being manipulated more than others.  These days I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.  As for skepticism, I think I have a healthy amount of skepticism ... for example, I've been propagandized for years here at TR about all kinds of things, yet I don't buy them because they are not evidence based.

Have you ever come across the concept "circular reasoning" Dave?  You should google it sometime.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 05, 2017, 05:03:19 AM
Dave, you could round out your awarenes somewhat by reading this (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/1/1639035/-Here-s-The-Scam-That-Makes-Conservatives-Believe-The-Mainstream-Media-Is-Lying)

You're being manipulated, chum. (well, so are we all, in principle, but conservatives are much more heavily targeted, and much less likely to use due skepticism )
Of course I'm being manipulated ... somewhat ... we all are.
 Unsupported claim.
But some folks are being manipulated more than others. 
Unsupported claim.
These days I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago. 
  Please explain how your claim (unsupported) of having a better understanding of how Nature (and life) works than you did 10 years ago leads to your being manipulated less than others.  Please note I am not questioning, in this specific inquiry, whether you do indeed have a better understanding of how Nature (and life) works than you did 10 years ago, nor that you may indeed be less susceptible to manipulation than you were 10 years ago (another unsupported claim) but rather how your having a better understanding of how Nature (and life) works than you did 10 years ago. I see no connection, none at all.

Of course, there is also the whole matter of all the unsupported claim of having a better understanding understanding of how Nature (and life) works than you did 10 years ago, not that such is relevant to the question at hand.
As for skepticism, I think I have a healthy amount of skepticism ... for example, I've been propagandized for years here at TR about all kinds of things, yet I don't buy them because they are not evidence based.
Barring intentionally biased efforts, self-assessment is probably the worst possible source of information.

Essentially, your claims are nothing more than unsupported assertions. Irrelevant and meaningless.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 05, 2017, 05:36:53 AM
... I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.
::)

See if you can spot the logic fail in this bit on your own, Hawkins.
I'll give you a day to puzzle it out before spilling the beans.
But I suspect - what with the raging narcissism - it will remain forever :itsamystery:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 05, 2017, 08:20:38 AM
Go ahead and fill me in
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 05, 2017, 08:24:24 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on March 05, 2017, 08:42:59 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)

First, I would need to see EVIDENCE that Trump Towers was bugged.

Then I'd like to know who the fuck Wayne Barrett is.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 05, 2017, 09:04:05 AM
Go ahead and fill me in

You really can't see it?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 05, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...
lol
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ffejrxx on March 05, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
trump tower is bugged by design
its missing 10 floors

http://theweek.com/speedreads/642716/10-floors-are-missing-from-trump-tower
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 10:14:09 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
Dear god is it possible that you really are this stupid?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 05, 2017, 11:20:17 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
Dear god is it possible that you really are this stupid?
:sadyes:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 05, 2017, 11:27:41 AM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...
Cool! I have lots of those myself.
http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,873.msg69901.html#msg69901
http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,873.msg69903.html#msg69903


Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ...
LOL. Wow.

You really aren't that good at hiding your disputed premises, are you?

Why do you "suppose we agree" that TT was tapped, dave? Because Breitbart says so? Because Trump tweeted it? Do tell.
but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant?
Why, and how, would it be tapped "WITHOUT" a warrant? Who (supposedly) tapped it? Do you know?
If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ...
Again with the "obviously". IF it was tapped, why do you think it was Obama that did it, and how?
if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
...

...Dave, are you seriously saying that no JUDGE should have a "basis" for ordering a FISA, since, if Trump had dealings with the Russians, his BIOGRAPHER would have uncovered it?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dunno what wacky alt-news site you get your indoctrination from, dave, but their motto should be "Stupid Ideas for Stupid People".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 05, 2017, 11:28:41 AM
Dave, please, go read some real news, written by relatively sane people. If you don't, you're going to end up, in the near future, looking like a goddamn gullible fool.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 11:30:13 AM
Dave, please, go read some real news, written by relatively sane people. If you don't, you're going to end up, in the near future, looking like a goddamn gullible fool.
um
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 05, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
um
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 11:31:49 AM
um...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 05, 2017, 11:35:19 AM
*twiddles thumbs*
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 05, 2017, 11:39:53 AM
:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 05, 2017, 12:19:40 PM
Okay, but at some point it's a bit like watching a clumsy dumb puppy walk into a leg-hold trap. A clumsy puppy is funny or annoying, but you really don't want to see it hurt itself.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 05, 2017, 12:23:58 PM
Okay, but in Dave's case it's a bit like watching a clumsy dumb puppy that yaps a lot, nips people's ankles, and pisses all over the carpet, walk into a leg-hold trap. You really don't want to see it hurt itself too much, but up to a point it'll be fucking hilarious and poetic justice.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 05, 2017, 12:24:26 PM
Besides that, Dave is hardly alone. It makes me cringe reading ordinary dumb republican americans, because damn, they are poorly informed and deluded, lied to and shamefully manipulated, fed bullshit daily, and even if they did it to themselves, and are shameless bigots, they've been ruthlessly egged on by the people they've chosen to trust. It makes me feel sick.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 12:25:33 PM
Okay, but at some point it's a bit like watching a clumsy dumb puppy walk into a leg-hold trap. A clumsy puppy is funny or annoying, but you really don't want to see it hurt itself.
at this point as leg hold trap just snaps down on one of the multitudes already attached. At this point is is more accurate to think of them as armor than dangerous.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 05, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
Besides that, Dave is hardly alone. It makes me cringe reading ordinary dumb republican americans, because damn, they are poorly informed and deluded, lied to and shamefully manipulated, fed bullshit daily, and even if they did it to themselves, and are shameless bigots, they've been ruthlessly egged on by the people they've chosen to trust. It makes me feel sick.
So we shouldn't punch Nazis. We should feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 05, 2017, 12:33:51 PM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
No, we do not agree it was tapped. Nobody has presented evidence that it was. Just unsupported allegations. There is one unconfirmed original source. See Trump's 'evidence' for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/03/05/trumps-evidence-for-obama-wiretap-claims-relies-on-sketchy-anonymously-sourced-reports/?utm_term=.bddb551b282d)

As to what could be the source of a warrant, there is this : Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia? (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html). (The answer is yes, but it's seriously weird). But even if there was a warrant nobody's talking about a reason.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 05, 2017, 12:37:17 PM
Meanwhile I have a Trump question ...

Trump Tower was tapped ... I suppose you agree with that part ... but the question is ...

Was it tapped WITH or WITHOUT a warrant? If without, Obama is obviously in trouble ... if with ... then on what basis did the judge(s) provide the warrant given the fact that Wayne Barrett had uncovered nothing amiss with Trump / Russia? (If anyone would have uncovered anything Wayne Barrett would be the guy)
Dear god is it possible that you really are this stupid?
It's not a possibility. At this stage, it's a certainty.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 05, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
Besides that, Dave is hardly alone. It makes me cringe reading ordinary dumb republican americans, because damn, they are poorly informed and deluded, lied to and shamefully manipulated, fed bullshit daily, and even if they did it to themselves, and are shameless bigots, they've been ruthlessly egged on by the people they've chosen to trust. It makes me feel sick.
So we shouldn't punch Nazis. We should feel sorry for them.
I'm still of the opinion that the majority aren't actually Nazis yet. Stupid and bigoted, yes. With a sizeable minority willing to go full Nazi at the drop of a MAGA hat.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 05, 2017, 01:14:11 PM
*twiddles thumbs*
Thumbs my twiddles.

Tensely so.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 05, 2017, 01:39:15 PM
Dave, please, go read some real news, written by relatively sane people. If you don't, you're going to end up, in the near future, looking like a goddamn gullible fool.
"real news"

Lol

Suggestions?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 05, 2017, 01:44:36 PM
Yes. Just pick any news that Donald has complained about.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 01:44:47 PM
Dave, please, go read some real news, written by relatively sane people. If you don't, you're going to end up, in the near future, looking like a goddamn gullible fool.
"real news"

Lol

Suggestions?
start by investigating the sources.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 05, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
Yes. Honest journalists do their best to identify their sources wherever possible. If those sources appear to be credible, you can at least tentatively trust the material.

Dave, your preferred journalists are one step removed from writing exclamation point littered Bat Boy articles.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 05, 2017, 01:55:14 PM
Sources claim Comey asked the Justice Department to publicly repudiate Trump's claims.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 05, 2017, 02:05:06 PM
"real news"

Lol
Why is that lollable?  :dunno:
Quote
Suggestions?
I suggest you ask yourself what YOUR criteria are for real news.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 05, 2017, 02:14:57 PM
Sigh

Suggestions ... for a "reliable" news outlet ON THIS STORY
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 05, 2017, 02:17:09 PM
He has. What he wants to believe is real news. Look at how quickly and unquestioningly he swallowed the bugging BS.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 05, 2017, 02:17:11 PM
Sigh

Suggestions ... for a "reliable" news outlet ON THIS STORY
are you suggesting there is any credible evidence anywhere that trump tower was wiretapped?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 05, 2017, 02:18:40 PM
Sigh

Suggestions ... for a "reliable" news outlet ON THIS STORY
I suggest you ask yourself what are YOUR criteria for a "reliable" news outlet ON THIS STORY.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 05, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
He has. What he wants to believe is real news. Look at how quickly and unquestioningly he swallowed the bugging BS.
Is this true, dave?
Have you, in fact, asked yourself what constitutes real news?
And have you, in fact, admitted to yourself that your only criteria are whether it's what you want to believe?
Or do you at least tell yourself you have some other criteria you're not willing to share with us?

(http://talkrational.org/archive/images/smilies/emot-care.gif)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 05, 2017, 02:46:54 PM
Sigh

Suggestions ... for a "reliable" news outlet ON THIS STORY
Sigh, indeed.

Let us walk together through this one, dave.

By "THIS STORY" I take it you mean the statement on Trump being tapped, and nothing else(we have all figured out by now that you don't give a damn whether your Leader was in cahoots with Vladimir). So be it.

So we have this statement. What is the stance "real news" should take on it?

Obviously, to determine whether it IS "news"- IOW, whether it actually is true. Right?

Now, what is the method "real news" should adopt to make that test? I see only one approach: Look for EVIDENCE supporting it.

Depending on whether such EVIDENCE is found, "real news" will have two outcomes:

Either present said EVIDENCE for the statement, or

State that NO evidence backs this statement (which also constitutes "news", as a statement reflecting reality).

Do you agree? If not, do you see any other options?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on March 05, 2017, 07:21:04 PM
JFC. Dave is taking this shit from Mark Levin seriously? The man has been a conspiracy mongering fringe fruit-loop since like forever. He's a vein popping "connect the dotting" rage-a-holic in the style of Alex Jones. He was just interviewed on Fox News and when asked about the specifics of how Obama was involved in this alleged wire tap and his reply was, literally,  "I'm not Nostradamus".  ::)

Perhaps Dave, the skeptical speed thinking circle running scientist, should bother to follow through and read (for comprehension) the original sources Levin claims to basing this on and see if his assertions hold water, rather than asking for someone to spoon feed him a debunking from elsewhere.

While it would be hard to prove, it would come as no surprise to me that Bannon asked for Breitbart to drop a column that gave Trump something to twit-rage over and distract from mess the administration is in over the multitude of connections and actions that are seemingly in favor of Putin/Russia. An article that consumes the news cycle and tries to make it appear that all of the noise about Russia is really just Hillary/Obama/remnant administration preemptively and continuing to make something out nothing. A distraction from the actual actions and genuine concerns of what has and is actually happening. Levin is certainly the convenient tool for the task. Obviously this is speculation on my part.

Speaking of "in favor of Putin/Russia", anybody see the latest concerning the Keystone Xl Pipeline?  Remember how Trump said he got involved and claimed that because of his intervention it was going to be made with US steel by US workers?  Yeah, probably not so much. It seems the steel pipe will be sourced from the Russian held Evraz Corporation and while they have two plants in the US it appears that production will more than likely occur at a facility in Canada and the pipe shipped south over the border. Either way, this will be lining the pockets of the majority holders of Evraz who are the Russian billionaires Roman Abromavic, Alexander Abramov, and Alexander Frolov.

#MakeRussiaGreatAgain
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 03:30:16 AM
OK I have another question ... here's an article by Joseph Farah back in July 2016 predicting a Trump win ... http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/prediction-trump-will-win-big/

Of course, you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut etc etc ... I understand that ... no need to spend 5 pages reminding me ...

But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?  Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction (we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 03:31:58 AM
And yes, part of the reason I'm asking this is to try to (eventually) answer Voxrat's question ...

"Have you, in fact, asked yourself what constitutes real news?"

It's a great question.  Hard to answer I think.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 03:52:39 AM
..we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public

1/ Who is "we"?

2/ How do they know this?

3/ What is the evidence?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 03:57:03 AM
And why choose such a trivial example as Farah's prediction? Really, who gives a shit? It's not important whether he predicted it or not. It has no bearing on anything current. Why ignore all the more relevant stories in favour of something nobody in their right mind will care about?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 04:27:36 AM
Michael Moore predicted Trump would win, too.
So did Andrew Sullivan.
I remember  handful of other people did, too.
It wasn't such a  risky  prediction: the polls were close and there were plenty of reasons to suspect that seeming slight advantage that HRC had was an artifact of this that or the other technicality.

Predictions are not news.

This is one of the dumbest - or most desperate - talking points that Trumpbots like Kellyanne Conway regularly vomit up when asked to give one example of the "fake news" they're always accusing the mainstream media of propagating: that polls predicted HRC would win. That was not fake news. Polls really did predict that. They were not fake polls, and that was not fake news. They have not found anything that qualifies as "fake news", yet they keep repeating that slogan, Goebbels-like, hoping the Big Lie will settle into public consciousness.

And of course gullible tool Hawkins is at the front of the line, gulping down more than his share of Kool Aid.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 04:37:05 AM
But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?
Of course he did.
A lot of people did.
Quote
Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction
If he did, he did a crappy job of it. The prediction was Trump would "win big". In fact, Trump lost the popular vote by the largest margin any elector victor has ever lost it. He scraped together an electoral win by a margin of mere tens of thousands of votes in three key states.

Quote
(we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
No, "we" know no such thing. That's you, swallowing the Kool Aid again.

ETA: It will be instructive to learn (a) where you got this "information" and (b) how you decided it was reliable, and not "fake". Care to share that with us?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 04:48:54 AM
And yes, part of the reason I'm asking this is to try to (eventually) answer Voxrat's question ...

"Have you, in fact, asked yourself what constitutes real news?"
Well, now that you have your answer, how does that help you answer my question? 
Quote
It's a great question.  Hard to answer I think.
It's an especially hard question to answer for someone to whom the concept of consilience is completely impenetrable.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 04:52:19 AM
 I'm convinced that you people don't know these things because you're lazy and don't read very much.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 04:53:04 AM
Dave, tell us how the NYT and WP and other newspapers 'doctor' their print editions to retroactively change their stories. Magic? Time travel?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 04:55:06 AM
I'm convinced that you people don't know these things because you're lazy and don't read very much.
Content-free IKYABWAI bluster noted.

I answered your questions.
Do you plan to ignore mine?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 04:55:18 AM
I'm convinced that you people don't know these things because you're lazy and don't read very much.
You do this all the time, Dave. You refer to something you do (or don't do) yourself and assume it's what everyone else does.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 04:55:47 AM
 Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/1362411/1362436/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 05:00:18 AM
I'm convinced that you people don't know these things because you're lazy and don't read very much.
Of course you are convinced of that.
That goes with the raging narcissism, where you think you are brilliant, and run circles around :yuck: normal people :yuck:, who are lazy and dumb compared with you.

But consider the possibility that we read at least as much as you, but we choose more carefully WHAT to read.
It is apparent that you have no gauge whatsoever as to the credibility of a report, other than whether it tells you something you want to believe.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 05:02:40 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 05:05:01 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/1362411/1362436/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html
Nobody is ignorant of the fact that media edit their stories as new facts become available or errors are noticed. Often there is a note appended to the effect that an earlier version existed and changes have been made.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 06, 2017, 05:09:26 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/1362411/1362436/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html

You really are very Trump-like Dave.

Fire first, aim later.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 06, 2017, 05:10:42 AM
Dave, tell us how the NYT and WP and other newspapers 'doctor' their print editions to retroactively change their stories. Magic? Time travel?

Dave never did address Trump's lie that Kovaleski retroactively changed his story.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 05:14:48 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/1362411/1362436/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html
Davey: you said they change stuff without telling anyone. Posting corrections and updates, and noting them as corrections and updates, is normal practice. It is not an example of "not telling anyone". ::)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 05:15:12 AM
By fuck this bloke is stupid.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 06, 2017, 05:39:50 AM
By fuck this bloke is stupid.

He can't even find the logical flaw in:

Dave-now is better than Dave-then, therefore Dave-now is better than most people.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
By fuck this bloke is stupid.

He can't even find the logical flaw in:

Dave-now is better than Dave-then, therefore Dave-now is better than most people.
I wonder if he could find it. Might be an amusing exercise.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 06, 2017, 05:47:21 AM
... I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.
::)

See if you can spot the logic fail in this bit on your own, Hawkins.
I'll give you a day to puzzle it out before spilling the beans.
But I suspect - what with the raging narcissism - it will remain forever :itsamystery:


Go ahead and fill me in
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 05:57:22 AM
... I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.
::)

See if you can spot the logic fail in this bit on your own, Hawkins.
I'll give you a day to puzzle it out before spilling the beans.
But I suspect - what with the raging narcissism - it will remain forever :itsamystery:


Go ahead and fill me in

I could be better at tennis than I was ten years ago and still get beaten by everyone I play.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 06:04:04 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/1362411/1362436/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/us/politics/jeff-sessions-russia-trump-investigation-democrats.html
So - is this a sideways answer to the question "How does Dave Hawkins tell a reliable news source from 'fake news'?"  ?
Organizations that we know update their articles are "fake news" and those that don't (or that we have no way to know whether they do) are reliable?   :dunno:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 06:11:57 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 06:16:11 AM
OK I have another question ...
No.

You.

Do.

Not.

You asked a question. We responded and commented on it.

Do you seriously think you can now drop it like a potato from Chernobyl, and send us on an irrelevant sidetreck on whether predictions are related to fake news?

Think again.

Do you have a response to our comments regarding your previous question, dave?

If not, simply say so and we can proceed.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 06, 2017, 06:32:06 AM
And yes, part of the reason I'm asking this is to try to (eventually) answer Voxrat's question ...

"Have you, in fact, asked yourself what constitutes real news?"

It's a great question.  Hard to answer I think.
What's so hard to answer about this question?
Either you have asked yourself what constitutes real news or you have not. Yes or no.
And you are the one and only person that can answer the question as to whether or not you have asked yourself that question.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 06:43:11 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 06:48:39 AM
And speaking of "FAKE NEWS", especially since you supposedly "read" much more than us, you should ask yourself:

Did YOUR sources disclose that the NYT had, in fact, reported on the falsity of Claire McCaskill's claim? Or were they implying that, by editing their story, the NYT were hiding that fact from their readers?

What did YOU think until now, dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 06:55:07 AM
But first:
OK I have another question ...
No.

You.

Do.

Not.

You asked a question. We responded and commented on it.

Do you seriously think you can now drop it like a potato from Chernobyl, and send us on an irrelevant sidetreck on whether predictions are related to fake news?

Think again.

Do you have a response to our comments regarding your previous question, dave?

If not, simply say so and we can proceed.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 07:26:40 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 07:30:19 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

You seem to think that is a bad thing, somehow. I wonder why.


(You had no idea the NYT had actually reported on McCaskil's false claims, did you now? :D)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 07:34:13 AM
So dave, who represents "FAKE NEWS"?

A news agency that removes a false claim from their story (and REPORTS on the falsity of said claim in another article),

Or a news "agency" that uses said removal to imply that the first news agency tried to HIDE that false claim from their readers?

Hmmmm. Another "hard question", huh?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 07:42:05 AM
And FYI, it wasn't the "first" article. It was a developing story: It had a dozen revisions before that, and half a dozen after.

Not that it matters- Just because you claim it's US who 'don't read much'. ;)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 07:52:13 AM
So dave, who represents "FAKE NEWS"?

A news agency that removes a false claim from their story (and REPORTS on the falsity of said claim in another article),

Or a news "agency" that uses said removal to imply that the first news agency tried to HIDE that false claim from their readers?


Hmmmm. Another "hard question", huh?
Come on dave. Give it a shot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Peez on March 06, 2017, 08:02:34 AM
This reminds me of creationist Claim CA250 (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA250.html).  The idea that changing your mind when new information becomes available is seen as a weakness, rather than a strength.

Peez
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 08:11:23 AM
Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
There was no "incorrect information about Claire McCaskill".
They reported, accurately, what she said.
It turns out that what she said wasn't quite accurate.
Which they fully explained in a whole separate article.

You still haven't answered the question:
How do YOU decide what is reliable news, and what is "fake news" ?

 (http://talkrational.org/archive/images/smilies/emot-care.gif)

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 06, 2017, 08:20:20 AM
This reminds me of creationist Claim CA250 (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA250.html).  The idea that changing your mind when new information becomes available is seen as a weakness, rather than a strength.

Peez

yeah.

Dave knows this though - occasionally he cites his own occasional changes of mind as proof of his ability to respond to changing data.

But that doesn't stop him using mind-changing as a stick to beat others with when it suits him.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 08:26:49 AM
So dave, who represents "FAKE NEWS"?

A news agency that removes a false claim from their story (and REPORTS on the falsity of said claim in another article),

Or a news "agency" that uses said removal to imply that the first news agency tried to HIDE that false claim from their readers?


Hmmmm. Another "hard question", huh?
Come on dave. Give it a shot.
Aaaaand crickets.

why am I not surprised?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
Dave hasn't even responded to the request for his opinion on several things Trump has actually done, from several days ago. Is it because you don't know anything about those things, Dave? Why not?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 09:09:00 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 06, 2017, 09:12:11 AM
Lol beautiful
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 09:15:44 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
No. News stories develop as new information becomes available.

Now how about those real world events directly attributable to Trump's EOs that you haven't expressed any opinion about, after days? Do you support them? Why?

Those are events affecting real people, in some cases thousands of real people, but all you want to talk about is nonsense about journalists.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 09:58:09 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Dave, what part of

Quote
they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.
Didn't you get?

And why the hell would they leave a false bit of information in their article? Isn't THAT "FAKE NEWS", dave?

What wasn't "honest" or "meticulous" in what they did? Why would it be "honest" to LEAVE it there?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Peez on March 06, 2017, 10:03:38 AM
Quote
Dave Hawkins:
So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Of course the president of the USA would never make a claim and then later look for evidence to support that claim, that would be hypocritical.

Peez
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: davesgoats on March 06, 2017, 10:23:35 AM
Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update?
(https://s25.postimg.org/frcy19v33/538.png)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on March 06, 2017, 10:54:05 AM
Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update?
(https://s25.postimg.org/frcy19v33/538.png)

Yep, that new pig is gonna grow, grow, grow.  I wish you luck, dearest goats (and pig, and rabbits).  Hopefully nobody gets hurt.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Dave, what part of

Quote
they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.
Didn't you get?

And why the hell would they leave a false bit of information in their article? Isn't THAT "FAKE NEWS", dave?

What wasn't "honest" or "meticulous" in what they did? Why would it be "honest" to LEAVE it there?
no I got that. But why change the original article? Perhaps to make you look like you didn't make a mistake?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 06, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Dave, what part of

Quote
they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.
Didn't you get?

And why the hell would they leave a false bit of information in their article? Isn't THAT "FAKE NEWS", dave?

What wasn't "honest" or "meticulous" in what they did? Why would it be "honest" to LEAVE it there?
no I got that. But why change the original article? Perhaps to make you look like you didn't make a mistake?
If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue. However, since they published another article explicitly about the difference, it's pretty hard to call them dishonest. Especially not in the way that, oh, say, publishing an article stating that the DNC emails revealed a child sex ring operating out of a pizza parlor is. So, with the NYT, you get articles updated to be more consistent with facts as they are known. With breitbart, you get lies that end up with a clueless redneck showing up at a pizza joint with an ak47 to stop the child sex ring operating out of the nonexistent basement. FFS you are a piece of work.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on March 06, 2017, 12:27:14 PM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Dave, what part of

Quote
they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.
Didn't you get?

And why the hell would they leave a false bit of information in their article? Isn't THAT "FAKE NEWS", dave?

What wasn't "honest" or "meticulous" in what they did? Why would it be "honest" to LEAVE it there?
no I got that. But why change the original article? Perhaps to make you look like you didn't make a mistake?

Damn, Dave, is that why you leave the countless errors, misinterpretations, quotemines, and falsehoods up on your blog?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 12:28:26 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 12:29:55 PM
... I am being manipulated less than others because I understand better how Nature (and life) works than I did 10 years ago.
::)

See if you can spot the logic fail in this bit on your own, Hawkins.
I'll give you a day to puzzle it out before spilling the beans.
But I suspect - what with the raging narcissism - it will remain forever :itsamystery:
Go ahead and fill me in
Ah. I see your point. But could he be trained to figure it out?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 12:31:29 PM
Here's something I suppose you guys didn't read, judging by your ignorance of the fact that the mainstream media changes their online stories as time goes along.
Nobody is ignorant of that. The mainstream regularly announces updates to their online articles. They call them: updates.

You seem to be suggesting that you think they change the articles without telling anyone.
I asked you where you got that idea.
You haven't answered.
No one wonders why.

Oh? And where did the New York Times announce this particular update? Especially the part about dropping the incorrect information about Claire McCaskill?
You are absolutely right, dave. NYT did correct their article (to reflect the actual facts), but they did not disclose an 'update' to point out that specific false information.

Nope. Instead, they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

So... "FAKE NEWS"? Why or why not?
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Because it did not reflect actual, FACTUAL news?

So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
Dave, what part of

Quote
they pointed it out in a separate article. Referencing the Associated Press fact checks. And explaining the actual facts in detail.
Didn't you get?

And why the hell would they leave a false bit of information in their article? Isn't THAT "FAKE NEWS", dave?

What wasn't "honest" or "meticulous" in what they did? Why would it be "honest" to LEAVE it there?
no I got that. But why change the original article? Perhaps to make you look like you didn't make a mistake?
Um, dave, they never made a mistake.

McCaskill made the 'mistake': She stated her false claim, and the NYT reported it.

Technically, the NYT could simply leave their report of her claim as it stood, and they would not be "mistaken" in their report. McCaskill did, in fact, make that (false) claim.

But that would hardly be "honest", now would it?

Because leaving the report of that false statement there would mislead their readers. Propagating something you know to be untrue makes you an accessory to spreading that untruth, even if it's not you who made the claim in the first place.

(Which is why we keep telling you you should correct your fucking blog post about Popper- but that's another story. ;) )

So the NYT did what they should do: They removed that comment on McCaskill's claim from the developing story, and then reported the fact-checking on McCaskill's claim (NEWS in itself) in an actual ARTICLE.

Why does that make them "scumbags", dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
So why did they delete the McCaskill paragraph out of the first article?
Because it contained false information.

  You guys would scream bloody murder if I did something like that.
Not if you also had a follow-up that made the situation clear. Which you probably wouldn't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on March 06, 2017, 12:32:49 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Did you read the rest of his post, which shows they did do an explanation, thereby destroying your point? FFS, Dave, read for comprehension, instead of skimming for things you think agree with you (but don't).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 12:34:24 PM
So they didn't do their homework well enough and published something that turned out not to be correct, and rather than leave it there in the article which would've been the honest thing to do, they airbrushed it out so that lots of people would continue to imagine that they have an excellent reputation as a fair, honest, meticulous research type news organization.

Scumbags.
You really are a fuckwit, aren't you? :parrot:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 12:40:46 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Sigh.

Look dave, we all know the actual reason for your flailing.

You thought the NYT had not reported on the falsity of McCaskill's claim. At all.

That is the only way your "scumbags" accusations make sense. You thought that NYT tried to hide the fact that McCaskill made a flase claim, by removing it from their reports.

And you thought that because the ACTUAL "scumbags" in this story (the sources you got that piece of "news" from) withheld that info from you.

That's why you're now desperately trying to justify your accusations with absurdities.

WHY did those sources ("real" news, presumably) forget to tell you that NYT had actually reported on the story, dave?

What's your guess?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 06, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
The originator of the Obama tapped him story posts more evidence of Trump's Russian connections (https://mobile.twitter.com/louisemensch/status/838503456562425859).

Hey, Dave, is this real news or fake news? How do you decide?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 01:07:57 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Sigh.

Look dave, we all know the actual reason for your flailing.

You thought the NYT had not reported on the falsity of McCaskill's claim. At all.

That is the only way your "scumbags" accusations make sense. You thought that NYT tried to hide the fact that McCaskill made a flase claim, by removing it from their reports.

And you thought that because the ACTUAL "scumbags" in this story (the sources you got that piece of "news" from) withheld that info from you.

That's why you're now desperately trying to justify your accusations with absurdities.

WHY did those sources ("real" news, presumably) forget to tell you that NYT had actually reported on the story, dave?

What's your guess?

Nope.

You're wrong as usual.

I'm only focused on the original article, not other articles.   Of course it is a good thing if they correct errors in subsequent articles and if they did, then that's great.

But the point still remains that they airbrushed an error in the original article.

 And that's a scum bag thing to do.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 02:00:33 PM
...You didn't read a word I typed, did you?

What was the "error" that NYT supposedly made,, and later "corrected", dave?

Explain, IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 02:02:26 PM
Also, tell me, in no uncertain terms, that you did NOT originally think that NYT had tried to hide McCaskill's false claim.

I fucking dare you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 02:07:50 PM
For reference:

Quote
Um, dave, they never made a mistake.

McCaskill made the 'mistake': She stated her false claim, and the NYT reported it.

Technically, the NYT could simply leave their report of her claim as it stood, and they would not be "mistaken" in their report. McCaskill did, in fact, make that (false) claim.

But that would hardly be "honest", now would it?

Because leaving the report of that false statement there would mislead their readers. Propagating something you know to be untrue makes you an accessory to spreading that untruth, even if it's not you who made the claim in the first place.

(Which is why we keep telling you you should correct your fucking blog post about Popper- but that's another story. ;) )

So the NYT did what they should do: They removed that comment on McCaskill's claim from the developing story, and then reported the fact-checking on McCaskill's claim (NEWS in itself) in an actual ARTICLE.

Why does that make them "scumbags", dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on March 06, 2017, 02:13:04 PM
Dave flies off the handle and names honest journalists scumbags, all because he misread the situation and/or the article(s). 

He won't walk that back.  He'll double down on more irrelevant minutiae and up the tard.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 02:15:55 PM
I kinda wonder though. If dave things that airbrushing an error is "a scumbag thing to do", what does he think about someone leaving an error as it stands (say, on their ONLINE BLOG) without bothering to correct OR EVEN airbrush it?

King of Scumbags, amirite dave? :D

But I digress. Respond to my questions.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 06, 2017, 02:17:09 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Dave, it is an issue. Somewhere along the way in life, some institution is supposed to teach you about media awareness. A lot of it is just critical thinking skills but some of it is actually regarding how to understand and assimilate media. You get lost in this us or them sporting match mentality and miss the fact that anyone who isn't an ideologue learns some basic heuristics about analyzing what news media deliver. There are basic elements like, news media that rely on their reputation and professionalism to maintain their brand have a vested interest in presenting the factual elements of their story accurately. That doesn't mean that they don't spin. The NYT sometimes spins the shit out of their information. They generally follow a neoliberal intellectual editorial bent. The WaPo is a little bit more populist but also follows a similar theme. Fox is generally reactionary neoconservative. People with media awareness understand this and attempt to compensate for it as they read, watch or listen. But when a major news outlet that relies on their brand prints a fact, they work really hard to verify those facts and print retractions and corrections when they find new information. That doesn't mean there isn't a grand conspiracy to withhold certain facts or whatever, it just means that the fact those outlets print are produced under professional journalistic standards which include rigorous fact checking and immediate corrections when new information is uncovered.

Donald Trump's inauguration crowds were smaller, much smaller, than the crowds at Obama's inauguration. That is a fact. Major news outlets went to some lengths to check a variety of ways of demonstrating that and published them. They certainly didn't need to do that. The pictures are proof enough.But they did. They did because that's what professional journalism is about. Literally no one here thinks of the NYT as unbiased or infallible. We just understand the medium, including the difference between editorial and news, and know what sort of information in it will be the most reliable and which won't. You, on the other hand, don't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 06, 2017, 03:14:00 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Dave, it is an issue. Somewhere along the way in life, some institution is supposed to teach you about media awareness. A lot of it is just critical thinking skills but some of it is actually regarding how to understand and assimilate media. You get lost in this us or them sporting match mentality and miss the fact that anyone who isn't an ideologue learns some basic heuristics about analyzing what news media deliver. There are basic elements like, news media that rely on their reputation and professionalism to maintain their brand have a vested interest in presenting the factual elements of their story accurately. That doesn't mean that they don't spin. The NYT sometimes spins the shit out of their information. They generally follow a neoliberal intellectual editorial bent. The WaPo is a little bit more populist but also follows a similar theme. Fox is generally reactionary neoconservative. People with media awareness understand this and attempt to compensate for it as they read, watch or listen. But when a major news outlet that relies on their brand prints a fact, they work really hard to verify those facts and print retractions and corrections when they find new information. That doesn't mean there isn't a grand conspiracy to withhold certain facts or whatever, it just means that the fact those outlets print are produced under professional journalistic standards which include rigorous fact checking and immediate corrections when new information is uncovered.

Donald Trump's inauguration crowds were smaller, much smaller, than the crowds at Obama's inauguration. That is a fact. Major news outlets went to some lengths to check a variety of ways of demonstrating that and published them. They certainly didn't need to do that. The pictures are proof enough.But they did. They did because that's what professional journalism is about. Literally no one here thinks of the NYT as unbiased or infallible. We just understand the medium, including the difference between editorial and news, and know what sort of information in it will be the most reliable and which won't. You, on the other hand, don't.
Oh yeah? Well, you're a scumbag too!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 03:15:34 PM
I kinda wonder though. If dave things that airbrushing an error is "a scumbag thing to do", what does he think about someone leaving an error as it stands (say, on their ONLINE BLOG) without bothering to correct OR EVEN airbrush it?

King of Scumbags, amirite dave? :D
Yeah but Dave would never do that on his blog. Dave is a crusader for 100% truth all the time.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 06, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
People with media awareness understand this and attempt to compensate for it as they read, watch or listen.
Davie don't do awareness. Of anything. It's really quite remarkable.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
...You didn't read a word I typed, did you?

What was the "error" that NYT supposedly made,, and later "corrected", dave?

Explain, IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
The error made has been backing the Democratic Party LOL.  Specifically in this instance they were trying to discredit Jeff Sessions and they thought they could  help their case  by including this bit about Claire McCaskill. Problem was they didn't check out her story before printing it.  Then later they discovered that she was wrong and rather than do the honorable thing and leave the article as is  and post a correction alongside the original article, they airbrushed it and hoped no one would notice.  If they were an honest news organization they would've given equal time showing what a liar Claire McCaskill is rather than trying to discredit Sessions.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 04:57:39 PM
 But you'll never admit they did anything wrong because you're a fucking liar yourself.  You have been for  as long as I have known you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 05:02:13 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 06, 2017, 05:06:13 PM
...You didn't read a word I typed, did you?

What was the "error" that NYT supposedly made,, and later "corrected", dave?

Explain, IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
The error made has been backing the Democratic Party LOL.  Specifically in this instance they were trying to discredit Jeff Sessions and they thought they could  help their case  by including this bit about Claire McCaskill. Problem was they didn't check out her story before printing it.  Then later they discovered that she was wrong and rather than do the honorable thing and leave the article as is  and post a correction alongside the original article, they airbrushed it and hoped no one would notice.  If they were an honest news organization they would've given equal time showing what a liar Claire McCaskill is rather than trying to discredit Sessions.
which goes to show you that they don't print facts that don't check out. God you're a dumbass.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on March 06, 2017, 05:18:54 PM
But you'll never admit they did anything wrong because you're a fucking liar yourself.  You have been for  as long as I have known you.
You have no legs to stand on. You won't even address the reality of what Trump has done so far. No comment at all on the DAPL, on the treatment of immigrants (including legal ones), on his blatant racism, his taking childish pleasure in 'reducing the national debt' by a trifling percentage when the reality is America is still operating under Obama's last budget, no response to his continuing alienating behaviour towards allies, to his removing clean water and air laws while destroying the EPA.

No, you're only interested in gnats, camels are too big for you to see.

Your children and grandchildren will curse your name if Trump continues as he's begun. If they aren't burnt to atoms in the nuclear war Trump longs to begin in North Korea.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
But you'll never admit they did anything wrong because you're a fucking liar yourself.  You have been for  as long as I have known you.
You have no legs to stand on.
He's been known as "Black Knight Dave" for years.  ;)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 05:50:23 PM
"If there is no note stating the article has been changed, then that is an issue."

 Thank you.

So you're not a total idiot. Just a 90% idiot.
Sigh.

Look dave, we all know the actual reason for your flailing.

You thought the NYT had not reported on the falsity of McCaskill's claim. At all.

That is the only way your "scumbags" accusations make sense. You thought that NYT tried to hide the fact that McCaskill made a flase claim, by removing it from their reports.

And you thought that because the ACTUAL "scumbags" in this story (the sources you got that piece of "news" from) withheld that info from you.

That's why you're now desperately trying to justify your accusations with absurdities.

WHY did those sources ("real" news, presumably) forget to tell you that NYT had actually reported on the story, dave?

What's your guess?

Nope.

You're wrong as usual.

I'm only focused on the original article, not other articles.   Of course it is a good thing if they correct errors in subsequent articles and if they did, then that's great.

But the point still remains that they airbrushed an error in the original article.

There was no error in the original article.
Quoting someone who says something inaccurate is not an "error".
Quote
And that's a scum bag thing to do.
Well, it would be if it were their error.
But not nearly as scumbag as leaving disinformation you KNOW to be wrong up.
Like you do, on your blawg.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 05:53:35 PM
Dave flies off the handle and names honest journalists scumbags, all because he misread the situation and/or the article(s). 

He won't walk that back.  He'll double down on more irrelevant minutiae and up the tard.
Remarkably parallel to how the object of his man crush flies off the handle with accusations of wire-tapping, and doubles down rather than admitting the obvious: that he has zero evidence for this insane conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 06, 2017, 06:00:35 PM
...You didn't read a word I typed, did you?

What was the "error" that NYT supposedly made,, and later "corrected", dave?

Explain, IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
The error made has been backing the Democratic Party LOL. 
::) 

This is your problem, Hawkins.
You are incapable of seeing anything except through the lens of your tribalist cheerleading.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 06, 2017, 07:37:23 PM
Hey Dave, check this out: http://www.ginandtacos.com/2017/03/06/president-snowflake/
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 07:37:44 PM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 06, 2017, 07:47:25 PM
 If the New York Times wants us to believe that they are fair and balanced and honest, then maybe they should start a witchhunt against Claire McCaskill because she also met with Russians... And even lied about it!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 06, 2017, 09:11:29 PM
except McCaskill isn't a member of the presidents cabinet that colluded with the Russians to win the election.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 11:17:48 PM
...You didn't read a word I typed, did you?

What was the "error" that NYT supposedly made,, and later "corrected", dave?

Explain, IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
The error made has been backing the Democratic Party LOL.  Specifically in this instance they were trying to discredit Jeff Sessions and they thought they could  help their case  by including this bit about Claire McCaskill. Problem was they didn't check out her story before printing it.  Then later they discovered that she was wrong and rather than do the honorable thing and leave the article as is  and post a correction alongside the original article, they airbrushed it and hoped no one would notice.  If they were an honest news organization they would've given equal time showing what a liar Claire McCaskill is rather than trying to discredit Sessions.
Lol, indeed.

Dave, nothing in your little scenario makes sense unless the NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story. THEN their "airbrushing" would be suspect.

But they didn't hide it, did they? You THOUGHT they had, because your actual scumbag sources had implied it. But no, they didn't try to hide it. In fact, they did EXACTLY what you said: Gave it "equal time", by reporting the story in a whole article. That's hardly "hoping no one would notice", now is it?

They could have easily left the original comment in their report, and no one could have accused them for making an "error"- They are just reporting what McCaskill had said. But that would STILL be wrong, because that comment would MISLEAD readers, So, when they saw the claim's veracity was disputed, they removed it. And the disputed veracity was reported on in an ARTICLE, not some hand-wavy notation.

I'm not saying that NYT are not biased or left-leaning, dave. But face it: You fell for your scumbag sources' little tricks, and chose to attack them for an instance where they acted quite fairly.

Admit it, dave. Did you, or did you not, originally think that NYT had NOT reported on the falsity of McCaskill's claim?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 11:23:26 PM
But you'll never admit they did anything wrong because you're a fucking liar yourself.  You have been for  as long as I have known you.
Sigh. And for as long as you've known me, you've squeaked and squealed and squirmed trying to find one instance of me lying. And you've always ended up with egg on your slanderin' face.

Like I've told you many times, dave: Slander, coming from a tiny, pathetic man such as yourself, amounts to nothing but praise.

Now go and correct your blog post that you have ADMITTED is false you damn hypocrite.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 06, 2017, 11:25:22 PM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
:facepalm:

I'm not sure you understand what "reporting" means.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 07, 2017, 12:06:59 AM
Dave flies off the handle and names honest journalists scumbags, all because he misread the situation and/or the article(s). 

He won't walk that back.  He'll double down on more irrelevant minutiae and up the tard.

Like Trump. The resemblance really is uncanny.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 07, 2017, 12:09:01 AM
ninja'd by Vox
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on March 07, 2017, 01:37:26 AM
OK I have another question ... here's an article by Joseph Farah back in July 2016 predicting a Trump win ... http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/prediction-trump-will-win-big/

Of course, you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut etc etc ... I understand that ... no need to spend 5 pages reminding me ...

But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?  Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction (we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
Huh? what does this have to do with anything? Hillary had a lead, but it wasn't a prohibitive lead. Even on election night, 538 had trump with a 30% chance to win. The fact that some random blogger thought Trump would win is unsurprising.

Now, I've never heard of this guy, but he's been writing for WND for years, so I checked on some of his earlier stuff.

First off, guess who totally wasn't going to get the democratic nomination? "I don't think [clinton] can get the nomination. (http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/why-hillary-will-not-be-president/)"

Hmm, not a good start. Maybe 2012 predictions went better?

"But I don't think Barack Obama will be on the Democratic ballot as a candidate for re-election to the presidency. And I know he's not going to win a second term. (http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/312393/#!)"

Ouch,

I could go on, he apparently has a penchant for making predictions that don't pan out
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 07, 2017, 03:38:46 AM
OK I have another question ... here's an article by Joseph Farah back in July 2016 predicting a Trump win ... http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/prediction-trump-will-win-big/

Of course, you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut etc etc ... I understand that ... no need to spend 5 pages reminding me ...

But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?  Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction (we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
Huh? what does this have to do with anything? Hillary had a lead, but it wasn't a prohibitive lead. Even on election night, 538 had trump with a 30% chance to win. The fact that some random blogger thought Trump would win is unsurprising.

Now, I've never heard of this guy, but he's been writing for WND for years, so I checked on some of his earlier stuff.

First off, guess who totally wasn't going to get the democratic nomination? "I don't think [clinton] can get the nomination. (http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/why-hillary-will-not-be-president/)"

Hmm, not a good start. Maybe 2012 predictions went better?

"But I don't think Barack Obama will be on the Democratic ballot as a candidate for re-election to the presidency. And I know he's not going to win a second term. (http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/312393/#!)"

Ouch,

I could go on, he apparently has a penchant for making predictions that don't pan out

Even a broken watch is right twice a day, right?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 07, 2017, 04:24:42 AM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
I see.
So now a journalistic error is not reporting "fake news", or something incorrect.
Now a journalistic error is defined as being perceived by Dave Hawkins as having a partisan motive (that doesn't align with his own).

Glad we cleared that up.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on March 07, 2017, 05:12:21 AM
OK I have another question ... here's an article by Joseph Farah back in July 2016 predicting a Trump win ... http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/prediction-trump-will-win-big/

Of course, you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut etc etc ... I understand that ... no need to spend 5 pages reminding me ...

But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?  Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction (we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
Huh? what does this have to do with anything? Hillary had a lead, but it wasn't a prohibitive lead. Even on election night, 538 had trump with a 30% chance to win. The fact that some random blogger thought Trump would win is unsurprising.

Now, I've never heard of this guy, but he's been writing for WND for years, so I checked on some of his earlier stuff.

First off, guess who totally wasn't going to get the democratic nomination? "I don't think [clinton] can get the nomination. (http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/why-hillary-will-not-be-president/)"

Hmm, not a good start. Maybe 2012 predictions went better?

"But I don't think Barack Obama will be on the Democratic ballot as a candidate for re-election to the presidency. And I know he's not going to win a second term. (http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/312393/#!)"

Ouch,

I could go on, he apparently has a penchant for making predictions that don't pan out

Even a broken watch is right twice a day, right?
The strategy seems to be "predict the republican will win every time, no matter what"
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on March 07, 2017, 05:39:43 AM
OK I have another question ... here's an article by Joseph Farah back in July 2016 predicting a Trump win ... http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/prediction-trump-will-win-big/

Of course, you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut etc etc ... I understand that ... no need to spend 5 pages reminding me ...

But my question is this ... DID JOSEPH FARAH REALLY MAKE THIS PREDICTION?  Or did he doctor the online story after the fact to make it look like a successful prediction (we now know that the NY Times and others doctor stories later with no notification to the public)
Huh? what does this have to do with anything? Hillary had a lead, but it wasn't a prohibitive lead. Even on election night, 538 had trump with a 30% chance to win. The fact that some random blogger thought Trump would win is unsurprising.

Now, I've never heard of this guy, but he's been writing for WND for years, so I checked on some of his earlier stuff.

First off, guess who totally wasn't going to get the democratic nomination? "I don't think [clinton] can get the nomination. (http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/why-hillary-will-not-be-president/)"

Hmm, not a good start. Maybe 2012 predictions went better?

"But I don't think Barack Obama will be on the Democratic ballot as a candidate for re-election to the presidency. And I know he's not going to win a second term. (http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/312393/#!)"

Ouch,

I could go on, he apparently has a penchant for making predictions that don't pan out

Even a broken watch is right twice a day, right?

Farah thinks Trump is a direct gift to America from his god and currently has his tongue so far up Trump's ass he believes in all sincerity that we should add his likeness to Mount Rushmore. That's just the latest in a long history of nonsense and conspiracy mongering. A rational person doesn't need five pages to demonstrate nor come to the conclusion that Farah is a fucking wingnut.

Quote
you guys hate people like Joseph Farah ... you think he's a wingnut
  :awgee:

I don't hate Farah, I hate the fact there are people who do not have the critical thinking skills to see though his wingnut bullshit. Let's call this what it is Dave, just an exercise in finding a gotcha that will reassure you that it's ok to keep listening to the same demonstrably shitty sources you always have.

Now, I'm still waiting for the evidence that a President of the United States committed a felony and illegally ordered a wiretap of Trump Tower. Anybody have anything like that? Because the current minority elect President has asserted this has happened, a lot of gullible assholes believe him, and without that evidence he's making a fucking joke out of not only the Office of the President he's making a fucking joke out of my country on the world stage.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on March 07, 2017, 05:44:49 AM
a fucking joke out of not only the Office of the President he's making a fucking joke out of my country on the world stage.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on March 07, 2017, 05:45:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgSSRE27GQ0
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on March 07, 2017, 07:50:47 AM
Might as well call this the Dave Hawkins effect...

http://www.businessinsider.com/sociology-alternative-facts-2017-2
Quote
As a rule, misinformed people do not change their minds once they have been presented with facts that challenge their beliefs. But beyond simply not changing their minds when they should, research shows that they are likely to become more attached to their mistaken beliefs. The factual information "backfires." When people don't agree with you, research suggests that bringing in facts to support your case might actually make them believe you less.

In other words, fighting the ill-informed with facts is like fighting a grease fire with water. It seems like it should work, but it's actually going to make things worse.

To study this, Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler (2010) conducted a series of experiments. They had groups of participants read newspaper articles that included statements from politicians that supported some widespread piece of misinformation. Some of the participants read articles that included corrective information that immediately followed the inaccurate statement from the political figure, while others did not read articles containing corrective information at all.

Afterward, they were asked a series of questions about the article and their personal opinions about the issue. Nyhan and Reifler found that how people responded to the factual corrections in the articles they read varied systematically by how ideologically committed they already were to the beliefs that such facts supported. Among those who believed the popular misinformation in the first place, more information and actual facts challenging those beliefs did not cause a change of opinion--in fact, it often had the effect of strengthening those ideologically grounded beliefs.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 07, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
Meanwhile, speaking of scumbags...

Trump blames Obama for releasing Guantanamo Bay detainees who were mostly freed under Bush (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-blames-obama-gitmo-releases-bush-article-1.2990555)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on March 07, 2017, 12:20:35 PM
Meanwhile, speaking of scumbags...
It's not clear which scumbag you are thinking of.  Trump?  Bush?  Obama?  The terrorists?
Quote
Meanwhile, Obama released 161 detainees, and only nine were confirmed to have returned to terrorism

It's hard to keep up with which scumbag is the target of scorn here.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 07, 2017, 12:21:02 PM
Take your pick.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 07, 2017, 12:22:20 PM
Meanwhile, speaking of scumbags...

Trump blames Obama for releasing Guantanamo Bay detainees who were mostly freed under Bush (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-blames-obama-gitmo-releases-bush-article-1.2990555)
Add that to the list of Subjects You Need to Keep Ignoring, dave.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 07, 2017, 03:10:15 PM
Meanwhile, speaking of scumbags...

Trump blames Obama for releasing Guantanamo Bay detainees who were mostly freed under Bush (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-blames-obama-gitmo-releases-bush-article-1.2990555)
Irrelevant. Obama should have taken them back into custody. After all, the Bush's are known terrorists who ushered Obama into the Presidency.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
I see.
So now a journalistic error is not reporting "fake news", or something incorrect.
Now a journalistic error is defined as being perceived by Dave Hawkins as having a partisan motive (that doesn't align with his own).

Glad we cleared that up.
The biggest error of all in journalism is to have an agenda other than "fair and balanced pursuit of truth"
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 05:16:02 PM
 But you know this already. The reason you are arguing this point with me is because you're just like the New York Times. You have a selfish agenda and you don't care about "fair and balanced."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 07, 2017, 05:16:36 PM
But you love the sites with the most unfair and unbalanced coverage.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on March 07, 2017, 05:20:51 PM
But you love the sites with the most unfair and unbalanced coverage.

You forgot to employ the correct Davinitions of "fair" and "balanced". Also possibly "selfish" and "agenda".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 05:32:46 PM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
 You guys know all this stuff already. I'm not telling you anything new. The problem with you guys is that you're not interested in truth and honesty. You're assholes with a selfish agenda.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 07, 2017, 05:38:37 PM
The biggest error of all in journalism is to have an agenda other than "fair and balanced pursuit of truth"
And the biggest error in the consumption of journalism is to conflate "what I want to believe" with "fair and balanced pursuit of the truth".
Meet...

Dave Hawkins.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 07, 2017, 05:40:30 PM
You guys know all this stuff already. I'm not telling you anything new. The problem with you guys is that you're not interested in truth and honesty. You're assholes with a selfish agenda.
::)

And what selfish agenda is that?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 07, 2017, 05:42:32 PM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
I see.
So now a journalistic error is not reporting "fake news", or something incorrect.
Now a journalistic error is defined as being perceived by Dave Hawkins as having a partisan motive (that doesn't align with his own).

Glad we cleared that up.
The biggest error of all in journalism is to have an agenda other than "fair and balanced pursuit of truth"
But Dave, every article you've linked has been by the most partisan and actually dishonest outlets available. You actually linked to a wnd article somewhere recently. I suppose you think conservapedia is doing something honest an necessary.

God damn you're an idiot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 07, 2017, 05:53:51 PM
Hawkins seems to actually buy Fox News's slogan.
And extends it to Breitbart, WND, and every other right wing fake news source he can find.

Gullible tools don't come any more gullible or toolish than this gullible tool.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 06:09:30 PM
 All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 07, 2017, 06:10:19 PM
Content-free IKYABWAI noted.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 07, 2017, 06:28:01 PM
Dave, have you ever seen the word "systematic" before?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 06:34:10 PM
Sure ... why?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 07, 2017, 06:48:25 PM
Because it's a beautiful word.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 07, 2017, 07:30:19 PM
OK.  What's your point?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 07, 2017, 07:53:48 PM
All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
I don't see any evidence of cognitive dissonance. Indeed, your usage of such would indicate you haven't a clue what it means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)
Quote
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress (discomfort) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, when performing an action that contradicts those beliefs, ideas, and values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts existing beliefs, ideas, and values.

I don't see any of us, with the exception of yourself, "who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, when performing an action that contradicts those beliefs, ideas, and values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts existing beliefs, ideas, and values."

Indeed, you seem to be the one getting all worked up.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 07, 2017, 08:29:06 PM
All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
I don't see any evidence of cognitive dissonance. Indeed, your usage of such would indicate you haven't a clue what it means.
All Dave knows is that people are using it to describe his actions, and it isn't complimentary, so Dave wants to use it too.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 07, 2017, 08:42:21 PM
All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
I don't see any evidence of cognitive dissonance. Indeed, your usage of such would indicate you haven't a clue what it means.
All Dave knows is that people are using it to describe his actions, and it isn't complimentary, so Dave wants to use it too.
Yah, he does that a lot. People here will use some term or phrase regarding Bluffy or something he idolizes and soon enough, it'll start popping up in his posts.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 08, 2017, 12:03:16 AM
All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
I don't see any evidence of cognitive dissonance. Indeed, your usage of such would indicate you haven't a clue what it means.
All Dave knows is that people are using it to describe his actions, and it isn't complimentary, so Dave wants to use it too.

Yup.  He does this a lot.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 08, 2017, 12:11:52 AM
It's funny. He thinks using words without knowing what they mean makes him look smarter.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 12:56:34 AM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
I see.
So now a journalistic error is not reporting "fake news", or something incorrect.
Now a journalistic error is defined as being perceived by Dave Hawkins as having a partisan motive (that doesn't align with his own).

Glad we cleared that up.
The biggest error of all in journalism is to have an agenda other than "fair and balanced pursuit of truth"
Corrected your false blog post yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 12:57:27 AM
But you know this already. The reason you are arguing this point with me is because you're just like the New York Times. You have a selfish agenda and you don't care about "fair and balanced."
Corrected your false blog post yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 01:06:07 AM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave? Would sneaking the McCaskill story as a notation within the developing Sessions story actually be MORE "fair and balanced"? Ya think?

You know that's not the case, dave. And yet, you keep returning to this bankrupt argument, as if living in a parallel universe in which NYT never posted that article. I wonder why.


...Actually, I don't wonder at all. You do it because you have nothing else to say.


Your scumbag sources tricked you, dave. Admit it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 01:10:32 AM
You guys know all this stuff already. I'm not telling you anything new. The problem with you guys is that you're not interested in truth and honesty. You're assholes with a selfish agenda.
Fixed your blog post yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 01:13:44 AM
All I can say is you guys must have some seriously strong glue holding your heads together because with this much cognitive dissonance, your heads should be exploding.
Speaking of cognitive dissonance...


Fixed your blog post yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 03:45:37 AM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave?
This would be obvious if you were not such a lying scumbag yourself. 

Airbrushing the McCaskill paragraph out of the original article makes the NY Times look better.  Or so they think.  But actually it makes them look like lying scumbags bc they got caught by NewsDiffs.  That's great that they posted a new article about McCaskill getting it wrong.  Wonderful.  But why are they trying to make themselves look better than they really are by airbrushing the original McCaskill paragraph?

Because they are lying scumbags.  Not interested in fair and balanced.  They are only interested in their political agenda.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 08, 2017, 03:51:12 AM
You really are a colossally batshit stupid fucker.

And I'm curious: have you fixed the errors on your blog yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 04:33:53 AM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave?
This would be obvious if you were not such a lying scumbag yourself. 
Shut the fuck up, you pathetic, hypocritical piece of shit. Go fix your lying blog post first, then come lecture me in honesty. Jackass.

Quote
Airbrushing the McCaskill paragraph out of the original article makes the NY Times look better.  Or so they think.
Why? Again, it does not make sense. They REPORTED what Claire McCaskill said. They didn't make that claim themselves, nor did they vouch to its veracity. If reporting someone's false claim made the news agency look bad, then reporitng on every lie TRUMP says would have made them hit rock-bottom.

You're REALLY not thinking this through, are you?
Quote
But actually it makes them look like lying scumbags bc they got caught by NewsDiffs.
So you keep saying. So you keep failing to explain.
Quote
That's great that they posted a new article about McCaskill getting it wrong.  Wonderful.  But why are they trying to make themselves look better than they really are by airbrushing the original McCaskill paragraph?
Again: How the HELL do they look "better"? They reported on something she said. That is not an "error" because what she said turned out to be wrong! It would be an error if they HADN'T reported it at all, or if they had reported it and failed to follow on the falsity of the claim. In both cases, they would be misleading or withholding info from their readers.

Use your brain cells, you Gullible Rube.

Quote
Because they are lying scumbags.  Not interested in fair and balanced.  They are only interested in their political agenda.
What is NOT "fair and balanced" in what they did? They posted a FUCKING ARTICLE on the falsity of McCaskill's claim!

Look dave, it's clear that you're all over the place. One minute you say that they "airbrushed" the claim to make themselves "look better" (how?), the next you say they were acting on some "political agenda", and did not give a "balanced" coverage of the story (again, how?).

Instead of struggling to make sense of your own story, why don't you admit what we both already know? You originally thought that NYT did not report on the McCaskill claim's falsity at all, and tried to hide it.

YES or NO, dave?

The REAL scumbags in this story tricked you, dave.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 04:37:04 AM
You really are a colossally batshit stupid fucker.

And I'm curious: have you fixed the errors on your blog yet?
Of course he hasn't. He's the Grand Vizier of All Hypocrites, Slanderers and Liars. (Trump is the Sultan)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 04:55:01 AM
Because they are lying scumbags.
You keep saying that, ignoring the fact that you get your nose rubbed in your inability to identify a single LIE each and every time. Just like the useful idiot, gullible tool you are.
Quote
Not interested in fair and balanced.  They are only interested in their political agenda.
You think Breitbart,  Fox, WND...  ARE "fair and balanced"? You think they have no political agenda?

Have you ever read Orwell's 1984, Hawkins?
I ask just out of curiosity.
Because, earlier, you used the word "Orwellian" in a way that makes me suspect that you don't know what it means.
What it actually does mean is highly relevant here.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 05:04:07 AM
 Not only are you a lying scumbag. You're hopelessly idiotic.  I'm surprised you can tie on shoes every morning.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on March 08, 2017, 05:08:06 AM
Not only are you a lying scumbag. You're hopelessly idiotic.  I'm surprised you can tie on shoes every morning.
Lol
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 05:08:19 AM
 In other news... Trump  continues to "do what he says he'll do after walking through the White House doors" ( merle Haggard... Rainbow stew ) ... Most recently he has deployed missile defense to South Korea  in spite of angry protests from Russia and China. And... POOF... There goes the Democrats "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative. 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on March 08, 2017, 05:11:40 AM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave?
This would be obvious if you were not such a lying scumbag yourself. 

Airbrushing the McCaskill paragraph out of the original article makes the NY Times look better.  Or so they think.  But actually it makes them look like lying scumbags bc they got caught by NewsDiffs.  That's great that they posted a new article about McCaskill getting it wrong.  Wonderful.  But why are they trying to make themselves look better than they really are by airbrushing the original McCaskill paragraph?

Because they are lying scumbags.  Not interested in fair and balanced.  They are only interested in their political agenda.
Fixed your blog post yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 05:13:31 AM
Not only are you a lying scumbag. You're hopelessly idiotic.  I'm surprised you can tie on shoes every morning.
I'm surprised you can live with yourself.

I'm curious: What kind of twisted, preverse rationalization have you used, to justify not fixing your LYING blog post? In what convoluted way are you lying to yourself, to reassure him that he is exempt from the standards of honesty you supposedly uphold for everyone else?

Is it as stupid as "temple prostitutes, not plain prostitutes"? Is it even worse?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 05:14:10 AM
Not only are you a lying scumbag. You're hopelessly idiotic.  I'm surprised you can tie on shoes every morning.
I see you are opting for spewing insults you don't even pretend to try to support, rather than address any of the questions put to you.

Do you think anyone fails to understand why that is?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on March 08, 2017, 05:21:28 AM
... Most recently he has deployed missile defense to South Korea  in spite of angry protests from Russia and China. And... POOF... There goes the Democrats "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative. 
It will just be ignored.   Because Trump is evil, nothing he does can be anything but evil.

Idiots know this, because they feel it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 05:24:37 AM
In other news... Trump  continues to "do what he says he'll do after walking through the White House doors" ( merle Haggard... Rainbow stew ) ... Most recently he has deployed missile defense to South Korea  in spite of angry protests from Russia and China.
Only that is NOT what he said he'd do.
Remember?
He was going to make Japan and South Korea take responsibility for their own defense. With nukes even.
Or they were going to have to pay us, if we were going be their military shield.
And he was going to make China rein in North Korea.
America was not going to have to be the world's security force.

But then, I suppose we have always been at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: F X on March 08, 2017, 05:32:21 AM

But then, I suppose we have always been at war with Eurasia.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 05:35:17 AM
Well, you've occasionally been at war with America as well.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 08, 2017, 05:42:37 AM
"There was no error in the original article."

See this is the problem... You are so blinkered with your belief system that you can't even recognize truth and error slapping you in the face.

Their error was not inaccurately reporting about Claire McCaskill.

Their error was "yeah let's report this so we can screw Jeff Sessions ... oh wait"
I see.
So now a journalistic error is not reporting "fake news", or something incorrect.
Now a journalistic error is defined as being perceived by Dave Hawkins as having a partisan motive (that doesn't align with his own).

Glad we cleared that up.
The biggest error of all in journalism is to have an agenda other than "fair and balanced pursuit of truth"
I disagree.
I couldn't care less about "fair and balanced" and there is a lot of wiggle room with "pursuit of truth". "Fair and balanced" from whose point of view? And whose version of the "truth" is one to pursue?
No, what I value is honesty and transparency.  I want to know the journalist is being honest, in other words, not feeding me a line of bullshit the journalist knows (or should know) is bullshit, and that what the journalist states is what the journalist actually believes. In short, I don't mind if a journalist has an agenda, but I do want to know what that agenda is. Hunter Thompson was anything but "fair and balanced" and he certainly did not "pursue the truth", but he was always honest and always transparent. What he put out was what he believed. You knew where he was coming from and why.

Now, of course, a lot depends on the sort of journalism under scrutiny. I definitely want a science journalist to present the facts. ma'am, just the facts, to not add his or her two cents worth. Just tell me what the scientist is saying. Without interpretation, without gilding, without addition or subtraction, without speculation (though if the journalist feels they must speculate, they should do so in a separate piece that is clearly identified as speculation. Part of that honesty and transparency thing. Similarly, I expect that in the reporting of "news". When reporting on the number of people attending an inauguration, I want to know how many people actually attended, not the number the inauguree would like to have reported nor what his or her opponents would like to have reported. Like I said, it has nothing to do with being "fair and balanced".

I also expect the journalist to do their due diligence. In other words, they should research the subject and issues. They should know the facts, as best as possible. They should know the biases and loyalties.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on March 08, 2017, 05:50:49 AM
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?  If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave? Would sneaking the McCaskill story as a notation within the developing Sessions story actually be MORE "fair and balanced"? Ya think?

You know that's not the case, dave. And yet, you keep returning to this bankrupt argument, as if living in a parallel universe in which NYT never posted that article. I wonder why.


...Actually, I don't wonder at all. You do it because you have nothing else to say.


Your scumbag sources tricked you, dave. Admit it.
Somebody tricked Bluffy?
Impossible!! Bluffy is BRILLIANT and runs circles around mere mortals.

I tend to think if there was any trickery involved, it's because Bluffy wanted to be tricked.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on March 08, 2017, 06:07:42 AM
In other news... Trump  continues to "do what he says he'll do after walking through the White House doors" ( merle Haggard... Rainbow stew ) ... Most recently he has deployed missile defense to South Korea  in spite of angry protests from Russia and China. And... POOF... There goes the Democrats "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative. 
If you are talking about THAAD, that was already set WELL before the election.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 06:10:12 AM
By the way...
Responding to substantive challenges with unsupported, content-free insults...
Wouldn't that be the sort of thing you'd call
... Smart ass junior high bullshit ...
  :hmm:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 06:36:09 AM
Quote
Look dave, it's clear that you're all over the place. One minute you say that they "airbrushed" the claim to make themselves "look better" (how?), the next you say they were acting on some "political agenda", and did not give a "balanced" coverage of the story (again, how?).

Instead of struggling to make sense of your own story, why don't you admit what we both already know? You originally thought that NYT did not report on the McCaskill claim's falsity at all, and tried to hide it.

YES or NO, dave?
I wouldn't want this to get lost.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 07:39:47 AM
 I didn't have a thought about that at all. My only focus has been on the New York Times airbrushing that paragraph.

 You have been talking about all kinds of other things in an effort to distract me from the main point. That's because you're a dishonest scumbag.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 07:40:58 AM
 You've been a  dishonest scumbag for so long you don't even see it and you don't know how to NOT be a  dishonest scumbag. It's your MO.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 07:42:40 AM
 But relax! You're not alone! Most of the mainstream media also consists of a bunch of dishonest scumbags too!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 07:43:59 AM
You've been a  dishonest scumbag for so long you don't even see it and you don't know how to NOT be a  dishonest scumbag. It's your MO.
I guess content-free insults you don't even pretend to try to support is all you've got left.
Junior high level bullshit.
:sad:
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 08, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
You've been a  dishonest scumbag for so long you don't even see it and you don't know how to NOT be a  dishonest scumbag. It's your MO.

and you have never yet provided any evidence that Faid is dishonest.  It's just one of these slanders you regularly trot out about Faid.

I guess that makes you the dishonest scumbag.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on March 08, 2017, 08:23:49 AM
I didn't have a thought about that at all. My only focus has been on the New York Times airbrushing that paragraph.
That online article went through 19 different versions in the course of one day before a finalized version appeared in print.
That's because it was a "breaking story".
Information deemed relevant was added as it became available.
Information deemed less relevant was taken out.
Pretty much continuously.
To call it "airbrushing" - with the obvious imputation of creating an intentionally inaccurate representation of the facts relevant to the report (which was about Sessions, not McCaskill) - is a dishonest scumbag thing to do.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 08:28:13 AM
I didn't have a thought about that at all. My only focus has been on the New York Times airbrushing that paragraph.

 You have been talking about all kinds of other things in an effort to distract me from the main point. That's because you're a dishonest scumbag.
You've been a  dishonest scumbag for so long you don't even see it and you don't know how to NOT be a  dishonest scumbag. It's your MO.
Pathetic.

There is only one dishonest scumbag in this thread, dave. And he's trying so desperately to avoid engaging actual points, resorting to content-free insults and slander instead, that he literally makes me nauseous.

(And yes, that was a proper use of the word 'literally'.)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 08:31:11 AM
Let's try this again:
Well here's a real concrete example of "fair and balanced" which would apply to the New York Times article we are discussing.  Why not include a paragraph about how Claire  McCaskill claimed to not have spoken to the Russians, but then later it was revealed that she did?   If you're going to write a story about Jeff Sessions saying he didn't speak to the Russians but then actually he did, why not include  The information about Claire McCaskill doing the same thing?

 This is not rocket science, folks.

 It's basic decency.
Sigh. Here we go again.

Dave, that line of reasoning only makes sense in the imaginary alternate reality in which NYT had HIDDEN the McCaskill story from their readers. That would indeed not be "decent".

They didn't, though. They reported it, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, giving EXTENSIVE coverage of how McCaskill's claim was false. Not in some  "paragraph" within the Sessions report, but with big bold 12-fonts in a story of its own.

How is that NOT fair AND balanced, dave?
This would be obvious if you were not such a lying scumbag yourself. 
Shut the fuck up, you pathetic, hypocritical piece of shit. Go fix your lying blog post first, then come lecture me in honesty. Jackass.

Quote
Airbrushing the McCaskill paragraph out of the original article makes the NY Times look better.  Or so they think.
Why? Again, it does not make sense. They REPORTED what Claire McCaskill said. They didn't make that claim themselves, nor did they vouch to its veracity. If reporting someone's false claim made the news agency look bad, then reporitng on every lie TRUMP says would have made them hit rock-bottom.

You're REALLY not thinking this through, are you?
Quote
But actually it makes them look like lying scumbags bc they got caught by NewsDiffs.
So you keep saying. So you keep failing to explain.
Quote
That's great that they posted a new article about McCaskill getting it wrong.  Wonderful.  But why are they trying to make themselves look better than they really are by airbrushing the original McCaskill paragraph?
Again: How the HELL do they look "better"? They reported on something she said. That is not an "error" because what she said turned out to be wrong! It would be an error if they HADN'T reported it at all, or if they had reported it and failed to follow on the falsity of the claim. In both cases, they would be misleading or withholding info from their readers.

Use your brain cells, you Gullible Rube.

Quote
Because they are lying scumbags.  Not interested in fair and balanced.  They are only interested in their political agenda.
What is NOT "fair and balanced" in what they did? They posted a FUCKING ARTICLE on the falsity of McCaskill's claim!

Look dave, it's clear that you're all over the place. One minute you say that they "airbrushed" the claim to make themselves "look better" (how?), the next you say they were acting on some "political agenda", and did not give a "balanced" coverage of the story (again, how?).

Instead of struggling to make sense of your own story, why don't you admit what we both already know? You originally thought that NYT did not report on the McCaskill claim's falsity at all, and tried to hide it.

YES or NO, dave?

The REAL scumbags in this story tricked you, dave.
See if you can do better than "you're a lying scumbag" this time, you pitiful little man.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 08, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
I didn't have a thought about that at all. My only focus has been on the New York Times airbrushing that paragraph.
That online article went through 19 different versions in the course of one day before a finalized version appeared in print.
That's because it was a "breaking story".
Information deemed relevant was added as it became available.
Information deemed less relevant was taken out.
Pretty much continuously.
To call it "airbrushing" - with the obvious imputation of creating an intentionally inaccurate representation of the facts relevant to the report (which was about Sessions, not McCaskill) - is a dishonest scumbag thing to do.

It's "spin", in fact.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on March 08, 2017, 08:39:36 AM

It's "spin", in fact.
I'm beginning to miss "socrates". He was a dishonest jerk as well, and equally full of himself, but his passive-aggressive pretense was easier to handle than dave's scumbagginess.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 08, 2017, 09:01:58 AM
OK.  What's your point?
That systematic is a beautiful word.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 08, 2017, 09:02:59 AM

It's "spin", in fact.
I'm beginning to miss "socrates". He was a dishonest jerk as well, and equally full of himself, but his passive-aggressive pretense was easier to handle than dave's scumbagginess.
It's pretty much the same except Socrates made up his own conspiracies
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on March 08, 2017, 10:33:47 AM
... Most recently he has deployed missile defense to South Korea  in spite of angry protests from Russia and China. And... POOF... There goes the Democrats "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative. 
It will just be ignored.  Because Trump is evil, nothing he does can be anything but evil.

Idiots know this, because they feel it.
There's little to ignore. The Pentagon had been trying to sell the THAAD to South Korea as far back as 2012. In 2013 South Korea asked the US and Israel to provide "the pitch" about their defense systems but declined to purchase anything, opting instead to design and build their own system. For whatever reasons such a system was not developed, but it seems likely South Korea realized with North Korea's continued advances in missile technology coupled with the public test launches it became obvious they wouldn't have a system in time and the gap between the viable threat and a viable system was untenable. The Pentagon started scouting installation sites within South Korea in 2014 but it wasn't until the middle of last year, during the Obama administration, that SK announced the installation would be completed by the end of this year.

So the bottom line is that South Korea had already ordered a system and was in the phase of site prep if not initial installation procedures before Trump was even thinking of running for office. About the only thing Trump could have to do with any of this would be to step in and find some excuse to kill the THAAD installation in the face of repeated missile launches on the part of North Korea. Anybody really want to argue that Trump would be willing to look like a weakling and bumble some excuse for not being tough on North Korea and denying South Korea the already planned and sold defense system after having run off at the mouth for almost a year about how he was going to have to "deal with North Korea" ?

As an aside, Dave seems to think that "puppet" is the only option rather than "colluding" or "indebted" or "useful fucking idiotic tool". His empty posturing is noted.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on March 08, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
"No useful fucking idiotic tool. No useful fucking idiotic tool. You're the useful fucking idiotic tool." Doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on March 08, 2017, 03:31:57 PM
OK.  What's your point?
That systematic is a beautiful word.
ok so?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 08, 2017, 04:22:28 PM
OK.  What's your point?
That systematic is a beautiful word.
ok so?
So brass buttons on your tin underwear.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: [Serious] on March 15, 2017, 05:47:49 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/1lhnqg.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/1lhnqg)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Damitall on March 16, 2017, 01:29:44 AM
Tucker Carlson interviewed Hair Furore on Wednesday night. Watch it or read the transcript, then see if you can support the premise that you have a sane person in the Oval Office

I haz a sad for America
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: osmanthus on March 16, 2017, 01:40:27 AM
Linky?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on March 16, 2017, 02:38:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax1ZdaDeW2E
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: MikeS on March 16, 2017, 05:37:51 AM
I cannot watch a Trump interview/speech for more than 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Zombies! on March 16, 2017, 06:24:37 AM
I didn't have a thought about that at all. My only focus has been on the New York Times airbrushing that paragraph.

 You have been talking about all kinds of other things in an effort to distract me from the main point. That's because you're a dishonest scumbag.
Alex Jones at Infowars scrubbed the Comet Pizza stuff from his site. Is that dishonest, Dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: CORed on March 17, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Since when did Ben Carson have a first class intellect? I mean ok he became a doctor, but he seems to have shut off the thinking circuits since then.

When I first saw Carson in a debate, I said, "Wow, this guys no brain surgeon.", but then I found out he is a brain surgeon. Go figure.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on March 17, 2017, 09:08:07 AM
Lol. I know kind of a lot of really dumb doctors. It takes more of a work ethic than a brain that works especially well. In fact, one of those dumb doctors is coming to visit for ten days this summer. She's a Buddhist Republican. Well, she may not be Buddhist any more. She was a sihk for a while and she might be some kind of Xian at the moment although she doesn't have any interest proselytizing. But she's a weird bunch of nuts for sure.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on May 02, 2017, 09:23:37 AM
Relevant to this thread:

Trump Is Insane and This Interview Proves It (http://www.theroot.com/trump-is-insane-and-this-interview-proves-it-1794805466)

https://youtu.be/-TCR5oC5ZQs
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on May 02, 2017, 01:09:20 PM
Donald Trump is not just insane, he's in control of America's nuclear arsenal.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on May 02, 2017, 01:13:04 PM
Donald Trump isn't always an idiot, but when he is, it's all the time, always.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on May 02, 2017, 01:20:39 PM
Old interviews seem to suggest he wasn't always this bad, this inarticulate, this divorced from reality. It's hard not to agree with the opinion that he's suffering from some form of dementia.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on May 02, 2017, 01:23:09 PM
Yeah.

His views were always shallow and ignorant, but they used to be coherent.

Now, not.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on May 03, 2017, 05:57:28 PM
The most clueless man in Washington (http://theweek.com/articles/696013/most-clueless-man-washington?utm_source=links&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=facebook)

Quote
The takeaway from Trump's first 100 days in office isn't a list of accomplishments or failures but rather a nugget of hard-won knowledge about the president himself: He is so comprehensively ignorant of policy and history, so thoroughly lacking in a core of settled beliefs or convictions, that the Oval Office might as well be unoccupied.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on May 06, 2017, 03:37:48 PM
The Three Myths Trump Is Destroying (https://psmag.com/politics-isnt-easy-and-the-country-shouldn-t-be-run-like-a-business-2fa35f59fc98)

Quote
Myth 3: The Country Should Be Run Like a Business
Related to the above two myths is the idea that the best person for the presidency is not only a political outsider, but one with experience running a business. Again, this is pretty bizarre. Businesses and governments do very different things to create jobs, providing mandated services is very different from serving voluntary customers for profit, and the federal government can print money and run debts over a very long time period while that might prove fatal to a business. But this, too, was one of Trump's rationales for running for office; he made money in the private sector (at least in some years), so he'd be good for the government's bottom line.

If anything, Trump seems, instead, to be importing some of the private sector's worst features, including secrecy, nepotism, self-dealing, and unaccountability. The thrift and efficiency one theoretically needs to survive in the business world are nowhere to be seen. He's spending on personal travel at a rate more than eight times that of his predecessor, who had no business experience.

It's too early to know whether Trump's business experience will make him a good job creator as president. The early evidence isn't great, but presidents don't actually have a whole lot of direct control in this area anyway.
In some ways, Trump isn't a very fair test for these myths. It's certainly possible a different politically inexperienced corporate leader with a temperament more suited to politics might be running the executive branch considerably better at this point in a presidency. But he's doing some real damage to these persistent myths, and we may just end up better off for the experience.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on May 15, 2017, 09:15:42 AM
NATO is scrambling to tailor its upcoming meeting to avoid taxing President Donald Trump's notoriously short attention span. (http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/15/nato-frantically-tries-to-trump-proof-presidents-first-visit-alliance-europe-brussels/)

Quote
"It's kind of ridiculous how they are preparing to deal with Trump," said one source briefed extensively on the meeting's preparations. "It's like they're preparing to deal with a child -- someone with a short attention span and mood who has no knowledge of NATO, no interest in in-depth policy issues, nothing," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They're freaking out."
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on July 18, 2017, 12:36:07 PM
Trump wonders 'why legislators don't seem to listen to him' (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-wonders-why-legislators-dont-seem-listen-him?cid=sm_fb_maddow)

Quote
The timing could've been better. Donald Trump hosted a strategy meeting on health care last night with a group of Republican senators - each of whom already agrees with the White House...

 "Trump has privately wondered why legislators don't seem to listen to him, and the blow from Moran and Lee illustrated the limits of the president's capacity to master the art of the Washington deal."...

Given a chance to prove just how adept he was as a world-class negotiator and deal-maker, the Republican flunked the test spectaculalry. What emerged was a picture of a president who didn't understand the issue, didn't care to do his homework, showed no interest in policy or substantive details, wouldn't help sell his preferred plan to the public, and couldn't engage in meaningful negotiations because he simply didn't know what he was talking about. 

And, of course...

Trump Now Wants Republicans to Let Obamacare Fail on Its Own (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/trump-now-wants-republicans-to-let-obamacare-fail-on-its-own/)

Quote
"But the vote would have been, if you look at it, 48-4," he said. "That's a pretty impressive vote by any standard."

No, o orange moron, it's an abject failure by any standard. Especially the one standard you care about; winning.

Trump's retreat into his fantasy world is now complete.

Noticed that his schedule is light to nonexistent lately?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on July 18, 2017, 01:37:58 PM
Trump wonders 'why legislators don't seem to listen to him' (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-wonders-why-legislators-dont-seem-listen-him?cid=sm_fb_maddow)

Quote
The timing could've been better. Donald Trump hosted a strategy meeting on health care last night with a group of Republican senators - each of whom already agrees with the White House...

 "Trump has privately wondered why legislators don't seem to listen to him, and the blow from Moran and Lee illustrated the limits of the president's capacity to master the art of the Washington deal."...

Given a chance to prove just how adept he was as a world-class negotiator and deal-maker, the Republican flunked the test spectaculalry. What emerged was a picture of a president who didn't understand the issue, didn't care to do his homework, showed no interest in policy or substantive details, wouldn't help sell his preferred plan to the public, and couldn't engage in meaningful negotiations because he simply didn't know what he was talking about. 

And, of course...

Trump Now Wants Republicans to Let Obamacare Fail on Its Own (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/trump-now-wants-republicans-to-let-obamacare-fail-on-its-own/)

Quote
"But the vote would have been, if you look at it, 48-4," he said. "That's a pretty impressive vote by any standard."

No, o orange moron, it's an abject failure by any standard. Especially the one standard you care about; winning.

Trump's retreat into his fantasy world is now complete.

Noticed that his schedule is light to nonexistent lately?


48-4, if you ignore the other 48 no's. Damn he is stupid, and desperate to claim any modicum of success in what has been 6 months of spectacular legislative failure and a marginalization of the U.S. in international politics to a level I did not think possible.

But he STILL has 30-35% popular support. What the actual fuck are people drinking that they don't see this bombastic know-nothing entitled arrogant cunt for what he is?

Dave?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on July 18, 2017, 01:49:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQG1K_9Nvvk

https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/887042589622403073
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: vivisectus on August 10, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
"When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex real estate transactions"

Ermm... when a man *inherits* billions of dollars. And then manages to craftily turn that money into less money than he would have had if he put it in index funds.

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 11, 2017, 04:16:35 AM
"When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex real estate transactions"

Ermm... when a man *inherits* billions of dollars. And then manages to craftily turn that money into less money than he would have had if he put it in index funds.
How do you figure that?

mid-1970s: S&P ~400, Trump ~$40M
2016: S&P ~2200, Trump ~$3B

S&P: 5.5X
Trump: 75X
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 11, 2017, 04:25:30 AM
Trump himself said the amount of money he has changes 'depending on how I feel'.

He has claimed his 'brand' (his name) to be worth three billion dollars - this while building owners have been frantically removing the Trump logo from their facades due to it tanking occupation/sales/leases.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: vivisectus on August 11, 2017, 04:53:37 AM
Trump claims he has that much. It fluctuates based on his feelings, remember?

More conservative estimates from people who, unlike Trump, do not make absurd claims on a regular basis, estimate it much lower: between 150 and 250 million. Considering that his father died in the 90's and left him most of his fortune, which the Trump family estimated at 300 million, it seems he has not performed nearly as well as the market.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 11, 2017, 05:32:37 AM
"When a man acquires billions of dollars through complex real estate transactions"

Ermm... when a man *inherits* billions of dollars. And then manages to craftily turn that money into less money than he would have had if he put it in index funds.
How do you figure that?

mid-1970s: S&P ~400, Trump ~$40M
2016: S&P ~2200, Trump ~$3B

S&P: 5.5X
Trump: 75X

Geez, you are stupid.

What the indexes were in the 70's and now is irrelevant.

There is a thing called an "index fund".  An index fund is a type of mutual fund with a portfolio constructed to match or track the components of a market index, such as the Standard & Poor's 500 Index (S&P 500). An index mutual fund is said to provide broad market exposure, low operating expenses and low portfolio turnover.

What matters is what would have happened if Trump had invested that $200 million in an index fund.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/:

Quote
Trump's net worth has grown about 300% to an estimated $4 billion since 1987, according to a report by the Associated Press. But the real estate mogul would have made even more money if he had just invested in index funds. The AP says that, if Trump had invested in an index fund in 1988, his net worth would be as much as $13 billion.
The S&P 500 has grown 1,336% since 1988.

Other billionaires' net worths have beaten the stock market's growth in that time. Bill Gates, for example, saw his grow increase 7,173% since 1988 to $80 billion. Warren Buffet's wealth grew 2,612% in the same time period, to $67.8 billion.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/

Quote
Even if the underlying assumptions are dodgy, the math at least is in the ballpark.

We used $40 million as the starting point for 1974. Honghui Chen, associate professor of finance at the University of Central Florida, told us the account would have grown to $3.94 billion by November 2015 if the money had followed the S&P 500 index and all dividends had been reinvested.

This is a rough calculation that ignores taxes owed on dividends, but it's on the same scale as what the National Journal reported.

Chen said it's trickier to calculate the value of $200 million invested in 1982.

"Because the stock market in 1982 was quite volatile, the current value of $200 million investment in 1982 would depend on the time at which it was initially invested," Chen said.

If it went in right at the end of 1981, it would be worth $6.7 billion. Invested in June 1982, the value today would be $8.3 billion. Invested at the end of 1982, it would be worth $9 billion. Again, in the neighborhood of what the Journal said.

There is a huge debate over Trump's current net worth. Estimates from outsiders, such as Bloomberg and Forbes, range from about $3 billion to about $4 billion. Trump says he has closer to $9 billion.

They rated the claim false because the details were wrong, but the numbers aren't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 11, 2017, 12:10:25 PM
https://twitter.com/TeaPainUSA/status/895261144423772160
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 05:57:30 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit. And, as you said, in America, everyone, regardless of ideology, has a right to free speech.
What happened on Saturday was ultimately orchestrated by the extreme leftist mayor and city council. They allowed communists and black racists to attack the protestors as the police stood idly by, obeying the stand-down order given by the mayor.
No one is mentioning the violence of the left, or how it all began by antifa and blm hurling bricks, bottles, urine and feces filled water balloons, and spraying mace and aerosol flamethrowers.
People fought back, as anyone would.
Racists hijacked the protest, this is unfortunately true. However I will say without hesitation that there would have been NO violence had the two groups been kept apart.
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.
What happened was awful, and we would do well to clearly condemn the violence on BOTH sides, as we continue to pray for everyone affected.

Also ...
Quote
Americans should be outraged over KKK. They should be outraged over Alt Left violence as well. That's what he said, folks. --Jack Posobiec
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 05:58:34 AM
jesus christ
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Worldtraveller on August 16, 2017, 06:06:28 AM
ITT. daveydoodles thinks punching nazis is bad. I believe the term for that is appeaser, no?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on August 16, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], ..
Dave. Quick quiz for you.

Can you finish the following?

... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do  [your answer here]
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 06:21:18 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit. And, as you said, in America, everyone, regardless of ideology, has a right to free speech.
What happened on Saturday was ultimately orchestrated by the extreme leftist mayor and city council. They allowed communists and black racists to attack the protestors as the police stood idly by, obeying the stand-down order given by the mayor.
No one is mentioning the violence of the left, or how it all began by antifa and blm hurling bricks, bottles, urine and feces filled water balloons, and spraying mace and aerosol flamethrowers.
People fought back, as anyone would.
Racists hijacked the protest, this is unfortunately true. However I will say without hesitation that there would have been NO violence had the two groups been kept apart.
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.
What happened was awful, and we would do well to clearly condemn the violence on BOTH sides, as we continue to pray for everyone affected.

Also ...
Quote
Americans should be outraged over KKK. They should be outraged over Alt Left violence as well. That's what he said, folks. --Jack Posobiec
FaceBook, the source of all reliable knowledge.

BTW, Bluffy, who was driving the car into the crowd? And then ran away?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 06:30:32 AM
Everyone remembers the perhaps overly aggressive acts of the German Nazis, but no one talks about the violent Jewish gangs in the Warsaw ghetto uprising! 
#bothsides
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: MikeS on August 16, 2017, 06:36:06 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit. And, as you said, in America, everyone, regardless of ideology, has a right to free speech.
What happened on Saturday was ultimately orchestrated by the extreme leftist mayor and city council. They allowed communists and black racists to attack the protestors as the police stood idly by, obeying the stand-down order given by the mayor.
No one is mentioning the violence of the left, or how it all began by antifa and blm hurling bricks, bottles, urine and feces filled water balloons, and spraying mace and aerosol flamethrowers.
People fought back, as anyone would.
Racists hijacked the protest, this is unfortunately true. However I will say without hesitation that there would have been NO violence had the two groups been kept apart.
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.
What happened was awful, and we would do well to clearly condemn the violence on BOTH sides, as we continue to pray for everyone affected.

Also ...
Quote
Americans should be outraged over KKK. They should be outraged over Alt Left violence as well. That's what he said, folks. --Jack Posobiec

Dave,
you are a gullible fool.  Try and square the circle with the bolded portions that even your FB commenter admits.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 16, 2017, 06:48:29 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

So did the news media omit to report Trump's repudiation of his support by the KKK and White Nationalists?

Did he say it somewhere and we all missed it?

Were there really some "very fine people" chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "Blood and Soil" and waving torches?

Did they not join what was billed as a "White Nationalist" rally?

Or did they some how think it was OK to join it, as long as they only carried torches and didn't actually shout slogans?

Those were "very fine people"?

Come on Dave.



Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit.

good grief
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 16, 2017, 07:09:16 AM
Remember that one day in June 1944, where a group of people came together to counter-protest a gathering of Nazis in Europe? Those people didn't have a fucking permit for that either.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 07:22:13 AM
jesus christ
is the answer

 There. I finished the sentence.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on August 16, 2017, 07:26:18 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], ..
Dave. Quick quiz for you.

Can you finish the following?

... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do  [your answer here]
jesus christ
is the answer

 There. I finished the sentence.
lol wut?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 16, 2017, 07:27:23 AM
jesus christ
is the answer

 There. I finished the sentence.
Yeah.

Read the Beatitudes again Dave. Tell me how you square them with the defense of hate-filled violent racists again?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 16, 2017, 07:33:43 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit. And, as you said, in America, everyone, regardless of ideology, has a right to free speech.
What happened on Saturday was ultimately orchestrated by the extreme leftist mayor and city council. They allowed communists and black racists to attack the protestors as the police stood idly by, obeying the stand-down order given by the mayor.
No one is mentioning the violence of the left, or how it all began by antifa and blm hurling bricks, bottles, urine and feces filled water balloons, and spraying mace and aerosol flamethrowers.
People fought back, as anyone would.
Racists hijacked the protest, this is unfortunately true. However I will say without hesitation that there would have been NO violence had the two groups been kept apart.
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.
What happened was awful, and we would do well to clearly condemn the violence on BOTH sides, as we continue to pray for everyone affected.

Also ...
Quote
Americans should be outraged over KKK. They should be outraged over Alt Left violence as well. That's what he said, folks. --Jack Posobiec

Jesus fucking christ dave. Only terminal stupidity can absolve you from that.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 16, 2017, 08:16:35 AM
DaveHasToBeRightism.

Trump has a related disorder.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 16, 2017, 08:51:14 AM
Hey, Dave, is this Charlottesville report "fake news"?

http://brianmclaren.net/what-i-saw-in-charlottesville/

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: nesb on August 16, 2017, 09:17:43 AM
Just as a reminder, Dave, a Nazi ran his car into a group of protesters and killed a woman. It's important that we consider what she might have done to deserve it, though, like stand up for Jews.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 16, 2017, 09:27:11 AM
Also, many of the marchers were wearing MAGA hats and chanting "Heil Trump".  And waving swastikas and shouting "Jews will never replace us" and "blood and soil!"

And nowhere have I seen Trump repudiate those supporters of his.

Did "fake news" fail to report it Dave?  Can you link to some evidence that he did?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on August 16, 2017, 09:42:52 AM
Also, many of the marchers were wearing MAGA hats and chanting "Heil Trump".  And waving swastikas and shouting "Jews will never replace us" and "blood and soil!"

And nowhere have I seen Trump repudiate those supporters of his.

Did "fake news" fail to report it Dave?  Can you link to some evidence that he did?

TBF Dave will be able to find some evidence that Trump "repudiates" those supporters. The problem is he ends up equivocating later on so he's basically talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Anyway, when youre forced to take the side of Nazis and white supremacists, it's probably time to revalutate your position on the matter
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 10:13:25 AM
"TBF"

LOL
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dean W on August 16, 2017, 10:15:48 AM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], ..
Dave. Quick quiz for you.

Can you finish the following?

... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do  [your answer here]
jesus christ
is the answer

 There. I finished the sentence.
lol wut?


"... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do jesus christ."

Makes sense to Dave, apparently.  Which meaning of "do" he's using is unclear.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 16, 2017, 10:17:01 AM
"TBF"

LOL

I don't find it laughable.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 16, 2017, 10:30:36 AM
"TBF"

LOL
Dave, when the leader of the KKK thanks and sings your president's praises, doesn't it seem like, I dunno, your president might be doing something wrong?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 10:37:34 AM
"TBF"

LOL
For fuck sake, Dave, Trump has been literally, stubbornly, reluctant to call out actual fucking Nazis. He had to be argued into making even a lukewarm repudiation of white supremacists, Nazis, and the KKK. He practically pouted while reading the prepared script after his first little off the cuff speech outraged everyone BUT Nazis, who praised it and said Trump was obviously on their side.

You think this is 'LOL"? Are you completely oblivious? Your country is on the verge of burning down and you're all 'lol trump iz so smart and sane!'?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 16, 2017, 10:39:37 AM
Just when I thought I'd lost the capacity to be surprised by Dave Hawkins, he posts a rousing defense of Nazis. Amazing.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 10:40:11 AM


(http://img.fark.net/images/cache/850/v/vv/fark_vvdoo6Nv1q6M0axbftII-GBMXa8.jpg?t=KcHCy20yTtpxtL8MMzCKmQ&f=1503288000)
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 10:40:44 AM
The above is from a Charlottesville synagogue, Dave.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 10:41:22 AM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 16, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 16, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
"TBF"

LOL
Dave, when the leader of the KKK thanks and sings your president's praises, doesn't it seem like, I dunno, your president might be doing something wrong?


Worth fucking repeating. Because pulling a "socrates" in a non-ironical way is sometimes needed.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 10:54:07 AM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
You are so brainwashed it's amazing bleach isn't pouring out your ears.

Heather heyer is dead, murdered by a self-proclaimed Nazi, many others badly injured.
Daily Stormer immediately published a long 'good riddance' screed, saying she was a worthless ugly fat childless slut who deserved to die and praising Fields for murdering her.

Nazis with guns yelling anti Semitic chants as they march around, standing armed in front of synagogues yelling threats.

Nazis with home made shields, many of them with the corners carefully sharpened to inflict deep wounds, and many people were wounded.

Nazis planning multiple marches on many other American cities.

Trump's response? "Both sides are bad."

dave's response? "Fake news!"

You're a compromised idiot, and that's the best I can say.

You're unbelievable.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 11:10:13 AM
 Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 11:17:03 AM
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
No, because your 'reading between the lines' generally adds up to completely fictional interpretations of reality. 

Listen up, Dave. Trump is a Golden Calf. You are a star-struck Israelite. You know what to do now, because Moses told you.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 11:22:01 AM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
I wonder how Bluffy would feel if someone spouting hatred and bigotry ran over one of his daughters and then someone else justified it by referring to her as a "fat, childless slut".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 16, 2017, 11:28:01 AM
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
There is no need to "guess".

We KNOW what really happened.

You don't "read between the lines" of a fucking video.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
Given your propensity for being wrong for over 10 years on just about every issue you've raised, the only interest I'd have in your "guess" is for amusement purposes.

And, of course, your "guess" would be from you "reading between the lines" not from actually looking at the news footage or reading the eye witness accounts (of actual people actually there, not some anonymous FB poster) just like you believe you know better than the authors themselves what they meant, just like you think quotemining is a legitimate form of evidence, just like you lied about your "records".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on August 16, 2017, 11:30:39 AM
Who would've guessed a 50 year old white christian male from podunk Missouri would be a Nazi sympathizer?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 16, 2017, 11:37:30 AM
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
You already showed us that FB post you reposted. Do you disagree with it substantially? If so, why did your repost it? If not, we already know more than we could possibly have wanted to about what you think happened.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 11:54:07 AM
Did I say that I agreed with that FB comment?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 11:56:52 AM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 12:00:34 PM
Right. You shared the FB post because you DISagreed with it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: ToThePoint on August 16, 2017, 12:11:24 PM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"
Lol
You read too much fake news.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
I wonder how Bluffy would feel if someone spouting hatred and bigotry ran over one of his daughters and then someone else justified it by referring to her as a "fat, childless slut".

Dave has a daughter? Is she attractive?

You know.....   the "grab em by the pussy" kind of young & attractive?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 12:20:23 PM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!
First of all, where did BTB claim to be a "trained scientist" ?
Maybe he did, and I missed it. That's altogether possible.
Or is this "Scientist Dave" making an unwarranted assumption ?
You already showed us that FB post you reposted. Do you disagree with it substantially?
Notice the telltale signs of a question ?
Asking a question is kind of the opposite of making an assumption.
Quote
If so, why did your repost it?
Notice the telltale sign of a conditional?
And, of course another question you conveniently dodged.
Quote
If not, we already know more than we could possibly have wanted to about what you think happened.
Let's see if you can get this one all by yourself!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!
No it's an instance of several intelligent people making a correct inference.

This "I didn't say those exact words so I didn't mean that" attitude is common among wingnuts. Such as those who triumphantly exclaim that the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in    the Constitution [1].
Neither does "separation of powers" or "checks and balances".
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Alfonso Bivouac on August 16, 2017, 12:39:14 PM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
I wonder how Bluffy would feel if someone spouting hatred and bigotry ran over one of his daughters and then someone else justified it by referring to her as a "fat, childless slut".

Hey, she's not fat!:)

(no actual offence meant to Dave's daughter).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 16, 2017, 12:50:37 PM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!
No. No, we didn't. If there was one, you could quote it and show it to everyone. But there wasn't, so you can't.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 16, 2017, 12:56:17 PM
Did I say that I agreed with that FB comment?
No, you didn't. And maybe, just maybe, that's why my post didn't include that assumption, but instead asked the question, "Do you disagree with it substantially?" A question (I note with some dread about what's yet to come in this thread) you have yet to answer.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on August 16, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
Hey Dave - are you ready to concede that your president is an enabler of Nazis yet?
Haha ... Pingu buys fake news like she buys fake science ...

Here's an FB comment I read and reposted yesterday ...

Quote
"While I agree with your sentiment [white people should not be racist], as a Charlottesville local, I want to caution you that the media has GROSSLY misrepresented the awful goings-on of Saturday.
As unpalatable as white supremacy is, the fact remains they did posess a permit. And, as you said, in America, everyone, regardless of ideology, has a right to free speech.
What happened on Saturday was ultimately orchestrated by the extreme leftist mayor and city council. They allowed communists and black racists to attack the protestors as the police stood idly by, obeying the stand-down order given by the mayor.
No one is mentioning the violence of the left, or how it all began by antifa and blm hurling bricks, bottles, urine and feces filled water balloons, and spraying mace and aerosol flamethrowers.
People fought back, as anyone would.
Racists hijacked the protest, this is unfortunately true. However I will say without hesitation that there would have been NO violence had the two groups been kept apart.
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.
What happened was awful, and we would do well to clearly condemn the violence on BOTH sides, as we continue to pray for everyone affected.

Also ...
Quote
Americans should be outraged over KKK. They should be outraged over Alt Left violence as well. That's what he said, folks. --Jack Posobiec



Rather than reproduce this same shit, here's a relevant comment from elsewhere.

Quote
[-]adimwit 10.6k points 16 hours ago*x8

 
Quote
You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.

False. Both sides applied for permits and both were approved.

Kessler's was  initially revoked (http://www.nbc29.com/story/36115819/judge-grants-injunction-jason-kessler-can-have-unite-the-right-rally-at-emancipation-park) because he wanted the Rally at Emancipation Park which the city believed was too small for the expected crowd size. They asked him to move it to McIntyre Park but he refused. A judge later re-approved his permit.

The counter-protest was organized by the Peoples Action for Racial Justice. They were granted two permits for two parks (http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right). McGuffey Park and Justice Park.

  
Quote
All of those people -- Excuse me -- I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
False.

The Unite The Right rally was organized by Jason Kessler, a white supremacist (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler).

And it replicated a similar event held in May which included Richard Spencer to protest the removal of Confederate Statues and the renaming of the park. He also described that event as a white nationalist rally. (http://archive.is/p72Qx).

The sole purpose of the Unite The Right rally was a neo-Nazi rally organized by neo-Nazis.

Trump lied (he claims he watched these events "very closely") on these key points. It's undeniable that he is defending the White Nationalists and White Supremacists.

Edit:

There's still a lot of debate about whether this was a Nazi event. David Duke and Richard Spencer were booked to speak.

They've also held several events in Charlottesville in the past year. One event in May was called "Save Lee and Jackson" and you can see how the organizers and attendees viewed it under the twitter hashtag #saveleeandjackson (https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23saveleeandjackson).

Here's a short promo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVFhC4kuYDU) of that event from the Alt-Right.

Here's Richard Spencer's speech (https://youtu.be/nM_5ZteCIaY) at that event.

 
Quote
Millenials are arising in a period when no one at that dinner table are connected to the second world war. That might seem meaningless but it is absolutely profound and meaningful. It means that they are able to get out from under this massive black cloud, this massive anvil of guilt that has been weighing down our people. This great black cloud that hangs over us called Hitler or Auschwitz or the Holocaust or what have you. We don't need to question the accuracy of the history. Because at the end of the day, facts don't matter.

Here's Domigo, Spencer and Duke's speeches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-syXRg6TRE) from the same event.

  
Quote
This is more than just a Confederate monument. This is images of white people. This is images of white heroes, images of white warriors, that are being torn down to attack and demoralize our people. Make us think that we don't have a future. They don't want us to have a future. They want to destroy our future. They want to replace us with some sort of mixed muddy people that would just be easy consumers that won't stand up for themselves.


Edit 3: The New York Times made a video breaking down the white nationalist symbols and emblems displayed at Charlottesville.

https://nyti.ms/2vAmO0u

Edit 4:

In response to more denials that Unite The Right was not a White Nationalist rally:

Non-White Nationalist Alt-Righters denounced the rally and distanced themselves from it because it was overtly a White Nationalist rally. It was organized by White Nationalists. And it featured prominent White Nationalists as guest speakers.

This is how it was advertised on Facebook and Twitter. It was even acknowledged on The_Donald (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FThe_Donald%2Fcomments%2F6rsng3%2Funite_the_right_in_charlottesville_next_week%2F&oq=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FThe_Donald%2Fcomments%2F6rsng3%2Funite_the_right_in_charlottesville_next_week%2F&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.1064j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).

  
Quote
A Disclaimer

I want to be perfectly clear with you guys that many of the people who will be there are National Socialist and Ethnostate sort of groups. I don't endorse them. In this case, the pursuit of preserving without shame white culture, our goals happen to align. I'll be there regardless of the questionable company because saving history is more important than our differences. This is probably why they named the event "Unite the Right." Speaking for myself only, I won't be punching right. We need to save civilization first, we can argue about the exact details later.

They acknowledged the White Nationalist element responsible for the rally, then defends them and justifies marching alongside White Nationalists.

The rally was unabashedly a White Nationalist rally. Anyone who chose to march with them did it in full consciousness.

Whoever is saying that this wasn't a straight up fucking Neo-Nazi and White Supremacist rally either doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about or lying. Period.

This shit had been in the works for some time on the usual nazi/supremacist/nationalist websites and I personally watched threads on /pol/ and The_Donald (for example the one listed above) and it was no secret to anyone paying attention that this was nothing less than a full on "racist groups" event. Was there a handful of folks who maybe didn't belong with the greater whole of scumbags, sure probably. Were there handfuls of people on the "other side" that engaged in some violence of their own, sure.

But this in particular, from the FB post you decided was a great idea to repost, is a pile of fucking bullshit.

Quote
While it was, amongst other things, a rally to raise awareness of racism against "white" folks, it was not intended to be a racist event. But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.
I see many conservative people forming strong opinions based on what they have read on the internet or watched on the tv. But there you will only ever be given half of the story.

Even besides the links above that lay out who and where this shit was organized, there's too much actual video out there now to even try and defend that statement. The racist shitlords far outnumbered anyone who might have been there to "peaceably protest" the statue removal. If you think otherwise you have your head in the sand at this point.

Where "handful of racists" means several hundred and the "totally non-racist" peaceful protesters just wanted to protest the removal of a statue that, like dozens of others, were put up not immediately after the civil war but in direct response to desegregation and civil rights laws being enacted about a half a century later.

Statues that were put up on government property to send a message that whites supremacists are still in charge no matter what the federal government might think, so fuck you, non-white mother fuckers.

Statues that aren't being destroyed, but being either moved to museums or sold into collections for display in their proper context rather than allowing then to stand in places of prominence as if there's nothing wrong with the racist posturing they were originally built and installed for.

Feel free to read between the lines and guess, fucknut.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 01:59:07 PM
Most of the Confederate memorials were erected nearer to 100 years ago. E.g the statue of Lee in Emancipation Park, unveiled May 21, 1924.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
Most of the Confederate memorials were erected nearer to 100 years ago. E.g the statue of Lee in Emancipation Park, unveiled May 21, 1924.
A veritable Golden Age of enlightenment, diversity, tolerance, brotherly love and just general kumbaya-hood in America!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on August 16, 2017, 02:32:20 PM
Most of the Confederate memorials were erected nearer to 100 years ago. E.g the statue of Lee in Emancipation Park, unveiled May 21, 1924.

Yeah, I over simplified that no doubt.

There's an estimated 700 or so monuments IIRC, not including memorials which are different  and nobody is suggesting removing those. Of the total easily less than 100 are those that I referred to. Of what remains I couldn't say what was installed immediately after the war and how much of the rest were put up by groups like United Daughters of the Confederacy at the start of the 20th century, but it could be argued the latter were no less influenced by civil rights acts starting with voting laws in the late 1800's right into the full swing of Jim Crow.

edit- I did think that the Lee monument was one of the later examples, so I was wrong in my train of thought there.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 02:38:26 PM
 Why were these monuments erected in the first place?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 02:38:51 PM
SPLC graphic :

(https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage-timeline150_years_of_iconography.jpg)

Of course the date doesn't affect the meaning what went on in Charlottesville.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 02:41:25 PM
Why were these monuments erected in the first place?
They wanted to commemorate treason and armed rebellion. Doobie's right, they also were a message to blacks.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
And, no matter their original meaning, today they are symbols of Nazis, white supremacists, racists, division, and hate.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 03:05:36 PM
Flags of the defeated (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/08/flags-of-defeated-by-bloggersrus.html)

Quote
One has to wonder why the flags and icons of defeated, racist regimes are cherished among the alt-right's self-described patriots. The answer is simple. Because the alt-right represents the former, not the latter. So does the sitting president.

...

With dawn of the Jim Crow era, the insurgents' relations (many, white women) took to erecting cheaply made "racist kitch," essentially mail-order monuments to the "the boys in gray," thereby to whitewash the history of the Civil War and reassert white dominance. (You wondered why that statue in Durham crumpled so easily?)

Addressing plans to remove the city's statues, New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu said in a speech in May:

Quote
These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy; ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement, and the terror that it actually stood for.

After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone's lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city.

 

Yeah, Dave, we know. LOL.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 16, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
Who would've guessed a 50 year old white christian male from podunk Missouri would be a Nazi sympathizer?
There's a nature/nurture argument in there somewhere.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 03:40:46 PM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!
Bluffy, Ben did not say what you are claiming he said. He noted you posted that FB post. Then he asked if you disagreed with that FB post. Then asked if you did disagree with it, why you posted it. And then noted if you didn't disagree with it, we already knew what you think happened.

Once again, it's not someone else not reading or at least not understanding what someone else posted, IT'S YOU. It's you that was making an unwarranted assumption. YOU!
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?
You already showed us that FB post you reposted. Do you disagree with it substantially? If so, why did your repost it? If not, we already know more than we could possibly have wanted to about what you think happened.

You're such a loser. Can;t even correctly parse a four sentence post.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 03:44:09 PM
"Your country is on the verge of burning down"

Lol

You read too much fake news.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
I wonder how Bluffy would feel if someone spouting hatred and bigotry ran over one of his daughters and then someone else justified it by referring to her as a "fat, childless slut".

Hey, she's not fat!:)

(no actual offence meant to Dave's daughter).
I didn't get that Ms Heyer was fat either. Not that makes any difference, except in this case, it was meant as an insult.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 03:48:32 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
Seems to me that the Civil War pretty much brought an end to the Jeffersonian vision  and expanded and consolidated federal power.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on August 16, 2017, 03:57:37 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
A State's right to what Mr Hawkins?

(Yes I'm stealing this from John Green's schoolteacher, but its a good line).
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on August 16, 2017, 03:59:35 PM
Lookit dis scrub.

David been thrashing around trying to find justification for bullshit. Google ain't your friend here David.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 16, 2017, 04:05:48 PM
Funny you should mention Google. Google apparently isn't the friend of anyone who doesn't buy into their preferred view of things. 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Fenrir on August 16, 2017, 04:08:22 PM
Swerve and deflect David. Swerve and deflect.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 04:08:36 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
In a way they do. They commemorate the North crushing the "rights"  of states to maintain slavery. Each seceding state produced a written explanation why. Each one was about slavery.

And, no matter their original meaning, today they are symbols of Nazis, white supremacists, racists, division, and hate..
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 04:11:41 PM
Shep Smith: Fox News Bookers Failed To Find A Republican Willing To Defend Trump (http://crooksandliars.com/2017/08/shep-smith-fox-news-bookers-failed-find)


Quote
Smith said, "We, our booking team and they're good, reached out to Republicans of all stripes across the country today. Let's be honest, Republicans often don't really mind coming on Fox News Channel. We couldn't get anyone to come and defend him here because we thought in balance someone should do that."

"We worked very hard at it throughout the day and we were unsuccessful," Smith said.

Trump stands alone. Except for his Nazi pals.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
Yes,I'm sure. It was not a State's right to secede,  there are no provisions for such in the Constitution. To provide for such, there would have to be a Constitutional Convention.
It was not a State's right to annex Federal property.
It was not a State's right to ignore Federal Law. That was one of the big problems with the original Articles of Confederation.
It was not a State's right to engage in armed rebellion against the legal constituted Federal Government.

Beyond which, Bluffy, do you support the institution of slavery, of one person owning another and having virtually total control of their lives, to be able to sell that person, or beat them, even kill them (though there were some laws regarding that), to separate families, to force one person to work for another without pay or choice? Do you support the notion that a State, any State, has the right to institute such an institution. Do you support the notion that a State may deny any citizen of the right to vote?

No, those monuments were exactly as others here have portrayed, symbols in support of slavery, racism, inequality, brutality. In support of a cruel and heinous past those who erected them in a vain attempt to whitewash that past.

Ask yourself, Bluffy, how you'd like being a slave.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 04:13:16 PM
Seems to me that the Civil War pretty much brought an end to the Jeffersonian vision  and expanded and consolidated federal power.
True or not, it doesn't matter to what happened in Charlottesville and what Confederate symbols stand for today.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 04:18:58 PM
Funny you should mention Google. Google apparently isn't the friend of anyone who doesn't buy into their preferred view of things.
Google is not a public entity. It can choose to do business with whomever it likes and not do business with anyone it does not want to. As long as those preferences are not in violation of Federal Laws. Just like you have the right to do business with anyone you want to or not do business with anyone you don't want to.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 16, 2017, 04:20:25 PM
Seems to me that the Civil War pretty much brought an end to the Jeffersonian vision  and expanded and consolidated federal power.
Only because you are an idiot Dave
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 04:23:09 PM
There are laws allowing the State to deny certain citizens the vote. Fair or not they do exist.

Quote
Beyond which, Bluffy, do you support the institution of slavery, of one person owning another and having virtually total control of their lives, to be able to sell that person, or beat them, even kill them (though there were some laws regarding that), to separate families, to force one to work without pay? Do you support the notion that a State, any State, has the right to institute such an institution? 

Well, Davie-doodles?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: RAFH on August 16, 2017, 04:30:01 PM
There are laws allowing the State to deny certain citizens the vote. Fair or not they do exist.

Quote
Beyond which, Bluffy, do you support the institution of slavery, of one person owning another and having virtually total control of their lives, to be able to sell that person, or beat them, even kill them (though there were some laws regarding that), to separate families, to force one to work without pay? Do you support the notion that a State, any State, has the right to institute such an institution? 

Well, Davie-doodles?
Those laws concern convicted felons and those determined to be legally insane. They do not concern a whole class of people based upon the color of their skin, what religion, if any, they adhere to, where they or their ancestors came from, their sex, their age (other than you must be at least 18 or 21 which applies to all), etc.

But yeah, Bluffy, where do you stand on those issues?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on August 16, 2017, 04:30:02 PM
There are laws allowing the State to deny certain citizens the vote. Fair or not they do exist.
Yes, but initially they're usually on the basis of being either incarcerated, being a convicted felon, not being a US Citizen, etc. You could certainly make a case for some of those being reasonable restrictions.

Its when they get into voter ID laws, etc, etc, that it goes from being fair to not.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: DaveGodfrey on August 16, 2017, 04:32:13 PM
There are laws allowing the State to deny certain citizens the vote. Fair or not they do exist.

Quote
Beyond which, Bluffy, do you support the institution of slavery, of one person owning another and having virtually total control of their lives, to be able to sell that person, or beat them, even kill them (though there were some laws regarding that), to separate families, to force one to work without pay? Do you support the notion that a State, any State, has the right to institute such an institution? 

Well, Davie-doodles?
Those laws concern convicted felons and those determined to be legally insane. They do not concern a whole class of people based upon the color of their skin, what religion, if any, they adhere to, where they or their ancestors came from, their sex, their age (other than you must be at least 18 or 21 which applies to all), etc.

But yeah, Bluffy, where do you stand on those issues?
Voter registration laws seem expressly designed to disenfranchise a whole class of people. Not exclusively based on race, religion, etc, but it does disproportionately affect minorities and particularly poor minorities.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Zombies! on August 16, 2017, 04:56:06 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 05:17:15 PM
here, dave. read meep's OP:

http://talkrational.org/index.php/topic,1501.0.html
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2017, 05:27:05 PM
Wow.  Dave really is everything that's wrong with this country, isn't he... 

Has he claimed that the Nazis were actually Socialists yet?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 05:29:58 PM
I agree with all the comments about disenfranchisement. Just being pedantic.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 06:01:15 PM
Alabama AG Sues Birmingham, Mayor For Covering Confederate Monument (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/alabama-sues-birmingham-covering-monument)

Quote
[Birmingham Alabama mayor] Bell covered up the monument to Confederate veterans, first with tarps and then with wooden walls erected by city workers overnight Tuesday. Bell told reporters earlier in the day that his immediate goal was to temporarily cover the monument "until such time that we can tell the full story of slavery, the full story of what the Confederacy really meant."

"What the Confederacy represented was the maintaining of individuals as being less than human, of promoting a supremacy doctrine that is no longer valid, and wasn't valid then," he added.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2017, 06:02:30 PM
I'm kind of surprised that Dave, with his superhuman Googling skills, seems to be unaware that the counter-protesters had two permits for parks in within a couple of blocks of Emancipation park, where the "Unite the Right" rally was going to take place.   What about their Freedom of Speech?  Or is that different?
(http://i.imgur.com/q5i2NbK.png)
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2017, 06:25:40 PM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on August 16, 2017, 06:34:27 PM
Why were these monuments erected in the first place?

SPLC graphic :

(https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage-timeline150_years_of_iconography.jpg)

Of course the date doesn't affect the meaning what went on in Charlottesville.


I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?
Seems to me that the Civil War pretty much brought an end to the Jeffersonian vision  and expanded and consolidated federal power.


Since Doodles seems to be too obtuse to pick up on the answer to his question, which can more or less found in Jon's image and earlier history in RAFH's post, here's another graphic that's a little easier to read for his benefit.

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7474fc6d053b2eda06d0a7eb7c3fe033819db6d8a64bc79c43dc9fb022929daa.jpg)

See peak number one Doodles? That would be about the "north/feds" telling n******s they could have some voting rights and that "separate but equal" racist bullshit was a-okay.

South says "check out muh States Rights!" (P vs. F) and follows up by enacting Jim Crow racist shit and throws up shitloads of monuments on government property. Particularly on courthouse and legislative properties, any place of actual governmental power and city centers letting everyone know what was what.

See peak number two Doodles? That would be about the "north/feds" telling n******s they could definitely most certainly have unsuppressed voting rights and blew right past that "separate but equal lolz Crow" bullshit and told the fucking racist shitlords in the south segregation was over.

South says "but muh States rights!", more monuments go up, murder some kids, beat up some bus riders, murder MLK. Ect, etc,...

You all done playing apologist yet?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: madmardigan on August 16, 2017, 06:46:05 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?

Why do people only plead for "States' Rights" when it comes to shitty things?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 16, 2017, 06:49:52 PM
Poster advertising the rally :

(http://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/unite_the_right.jpg)

See any theme there, Davie-doodles?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Doobie Keebler on August 16, 2017, 06:50:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 16, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
If I was thinking really really really kindly, I would think maybe Dave is ordinarily completely oblivious to the world outside his personal life, and therefore, except for the odd buzzword (MAGA! Libs!) penetrating his brain, osmotically as it were, he does not have clue 1 about what goes on outside his bubble. So he's faking it entirely from scratch in this thread.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 16, 2017, 07:14:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that Dave, with his superhuman Googling skills...
Yeah.
No.
Dave - despite his years of boasting of his prodigious Google-fu, and sneering at others' perceived lack thereof - has now decided that Google is of the debbil.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2017, 07:26:10 PM
If I was thinking really really really kindly, I would think maybe Dave is ordinarily completely oblivious to the world outside his personal life, and therefore, except for the odd buzzword (MAGA! Libs!) penetrating his brain, osmotically as it were, he does not have clue 1 about what goes on outside his bubble. So he's faking it entirely from scratch in this thread.
He's watched enough Fox news and Breitbart to form an opinion.  Truth detected.  No further work neccesary.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 16, 2017, 07:39:25 PM
I'm kind of surprised that Dave, with his superhuman Googling skills, seems to be unaware that the counter-protesters had two permits for parks in within a couple of blocks of Emancipation park, where the "Unite the Right" rally was going to take place.   What about their Freedom of Speech?  Or is that different?
(http://i.imgur.com/q5i2NbK.png)
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right
That's about the most well defined map I've ever seen and I make a lot of maps.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 16, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?

Why do people only plead for "States' Rights" when it comes to shitty things?
That kinda blows my mind too. I'm a relatively hard liner for local control of local matters but I can't even have the conversation because shitlords have ruined it.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 16, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
If I was thinking really really really kindly, I would think maybe Dave is ordinarily completely oblivious to the world outside his personal life, and therefore, except for the odd buzzword (MAGA! Libs!) penetrating his brain, osmotically as it were, he does not have clue 1 about what goes on outside his bubble. So he's faking it entirely from scratch in this thread.
I assume this is true because he knows jack about shit but he's still supporting Nazis.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: nesb on August 17, 2017, 12:02:27 AM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?

Read these: https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

A preview:

Quote
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 12:10:20 AM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Oh? And what do you know about this Jason Kassler [sic] character?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 17, 2017, 12:25:49 AM
Lol. Lemme guess, a Soros funded false flag dude?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 17, 2017, 12:28:41 AM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Oh? And what do you know about this Jason Kassler [sic] character?

Cue the Soros conspiracy theories.  You are nothing if not predictable in your march to believe what you want, Dave.

eta: ninja'd!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 17, 2017, 12:39:44 AM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Oh? And what do you know about this Jason Kassler [sic] character?

Cue the Soros conspiracy theories.  You are nothing if not predictable in your march to believe what you want, Dave.

eta: ninja'd!
What he is told to believe.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 17, 2017, 12:58:09 AM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Oh? And what do you know about this Jason Kassler [sic] character?

Sigh.

When you're deep down the rabbit hole, every evidence against your position becomes evidence for a conspiracy against your position.

There's no hope for you. Sad.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 17, 2017, 01:42:29 AM
Do you want to know my guess as to what really happened?  From reading between the lines of everything that's out there?

No.

Nobody wants to read your "guess".

What we want is what happened.  What we could see happening.  On video footage, and described not by news media but by people who were actually there, attending.  People from churches, even.

And what we could see was a long snaking line of people CARRYING TORCHES ffs.

You know what that means?  What that signifies?

And chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil".  You know what those things mean, Dave?  You know they are Nazi slogans, right?

Which "lines" do you want to "read between"?  hmm?

Were there invisible "fine people" hiding between those lines of torch bearing Nazis? 

hmm?

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 17, 2017, 01:51:27 AM
Why were these monuments erected in the first place?

Some were erected as white dominance propaganda.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 17, 2017, 01:53:07 AM
Why no. No I didn't!  Did we just have another occurrence of a trained scientist making an unwarranted assumption? !!

So why did you post it in a post accusing me of buying into fake news?

We tend to assume you are trying to make sense.  I agree that that assumption is not necessarily warranting.  Would you rather we assumed you were a gibbering fool?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Pingu on August 17, 2017, 01:58:34 AM
If I was thinking really really really kindly, I would think maybe Dave is ordinarily completely oblivious to the world outside his personal life, and therefore, except for the odd buzzword (MAGA! Libs!) penetrating his brain, osmotically as it were, he does not have clue 1 about what goes on outside his bubble. So he's faking it entirely from scratch in this thread.

I think so.

And, like Trump's, the bubble is his own ego.

Only Trump is a) an actual racist and b) president of the United States of America, god help us all.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: vivisectus on August 17, 2017, 02:34:02 AM
I have not studied this much, but are you sure that the monuments don't commemorate the North's crushing of states rights?

That is the side that "lost cause" proponents tend to take, sure, but in my view it is a somewhat conflated, slanted argument. The southern landowning class's bid to preserve their privileged status was phrased as a bid for states rights, which they interpreted as including the right to leave the union if it looked like the federal government would make decisions they disagreed with.

In the years before the war, the pressure was steadily growing. If it hadn't been for repeated attempts at appeasement, the civil war would probably have broken out in the 1820's. By allowing southern states to count 3/5 of their slaves towards their population for the purpose of determining the number of representative districts, allowing them more influence than their actual voting population would grant them, and by ensuring that enough new territories would be slave states, they were allowed to preserve enough influence in national politics to keep abolition and trade tariffs at bay.

And here the argument gets a bit wonky: if they were so hot on states rights, how come they had no problem determining what was in the constitutions of these new states in order to further their own interests?  It seems that they were only concerned with the sovereignty of states when the interests of those southerners who had a say in politics were threatened - which largely meant the plantation-owners.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2017, 04:37:40 AM
But when the media continually, misleadingly refers to it as a "white nationalist" event, and repeatedly shows the one or two pictures of the handful of racists that showed up, it's no wonder people are believing it.

The organizer himself  (Jason Kassler (http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8)) described it as a White Nationalist Rally (http://archive.is/p72Qx).  You really need to pull your head out of your ass.
Oh? And what do you know about this Jason Kassler [sic] character?
::) I know what I've read about him.  What do your sources say?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 05:20:14 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/report-%E2%80%98unite-right%E2%80%99-organizer-jason-kessler-was-occupy-movement-obama-supporter-8-m
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 17, 2017, 05:36:25 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/report-%E2%80%98unite-right%E2%80%99-organizer-jason-kessler-was-occupy-movement-obama-supporter-8-m
Maybe true, maybe not. Of course you didn't notice that link contains no evidence of what the headline claims.  You didn't read beyond the headline. But it's irrelevant.  Ancient history.  Since 2013 he's an ultra-right-wing white supremacist agitator.

About Jason Kessler (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler):

Quote
Kessler himself has placed his "red-pilling" around December of 2013 when a PR executive was publicly excoriated for a tasteless Twitter joke about AIDS in Africa.

Regarding the incident, Kessler stated "... so it was just a little race joke, nothing that big of a deal, she didn't have that many followers, she probably didn't think anybody was gonna see it,"

Regardless of Kessler's past politics, the rightward shift in his views was first put on display in November, 2016 when his tirade against Wes Bellamy began.

...

In a GoFundMe started by one of Kessler's Unity & Security for America cohort to fund the "man hours to prepare for [protests], body armor to protect our journalist from a knife to the ribs, a professional quality microphone for interviewer [sic] the protestors and much more," the group is described as "a revolutionary right wing grassroots movement. Founded by author and activist Jason Kessler who broke the Wes Bellamy Twitter scandal, USA is transformational movement within the Cultural Marxist hell that is Charlottesville."

"Cultural Marxism" refers to a conspiracy that a group of Jewish leaders escaped Nazi Germany and have since sought to "erode Western values" through cultural influence.

...

In April of 2017, Kessler retweeted a post by a Twitter account associated with The Right Stuff (TRS). The post shared a racist blog penned by Identity Dixie, a neo-Confederate offshoot of the white nationalist TRS, titled "The Shadow Over Charlottesville." The piece outlined Kessler's efforts to dislodge Bellamy over Bellamy's problematic tweets and retweets and referred to Bellamy as a "pavement ape" and "Councilman Dindu," while also disparaging a federal judge as a "jigaboo" and "pinko-commie fags" in the City of Charlottesville.

That same month, Kessler penned his first article for VDare, a xenophobic, nativist publication started by Peter Brimelow. Kessler has since written four additional blogs for the publication, including the most recent, posted on June 19, titled "Yes, Virginia (Dare), There Is Such A Thing As White Genocide."

Kessler has also written for GotNews.com, a website established by white nationalist and internet troll Chuck Johnson.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2017, 05:37:29 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/report-%E2%80%98unite-right%E2%80%99-organizer-jason-kessler-was-occupy-movement-obama-supporter-8-m

 ::)   From your own source:

Quote
Kessler himself has placed his "red-pilling" around December of 2013 when a PR executive was publicly excoriated for a tasteless Twitter joke about AIDS in Africa.

Regarding the incident, Kessler stated "... so it was just a little race joke, nothing that big of a deal, she didn't have that many followers, she probably didn't think anybody was gonna see it,"

Regardless of Kessler's past politics, the rightward shift in his views was first put on display in November, 2016 when his tirade against Wes Bellamy began.

So what was this then, a Honey Pot to get pictures of White Nationalists acting badly?  Wasn't Trump a Democrat until a couple of years ago? And a Hillary Clinton supporter? 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 17, 2017, 05:42:40 AM
Dave, go read the Wikipedia entry for Zero Hedge news, then come back and explain why you like Russian propaganda so much.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2017, 05:49:54 AM
Dave, go read the Wikipedia entry for Zero Hedge news, then come back and explain why you like Russian propaganda so much.
I'm willing to bet that Dave had never heard Kessler's name before and just reposted the first conspiracy theory he could find on Google. 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 05:51:54 AM
Hahahaha ... the Ministry of Truth is effective!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 17, 2017, 06:00:25 AM
You know what? Fine. Go ahead dave. Don't hold back. Tell us what YOU think is the truth.

Should be an interesting 'data point'.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 06:06:00 AM
"What Dave thinks"

= Interpretation of Data

!= Data point

#realsciencelesson

Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 17, 2017, 06:08:38 AM
Hahahaha ... the Ministry of Truth is effective!
Alternatively, you have a poor grasp of politics in general, very little knowledge of history, and therefore lack sensible filters when it comes to judging information from news sources.

You could, of course, fix that problem by reading enough background sources to know when you should take a source with more than a grain of salt, but you won't, because if you like it, it must be true.

Dave, this is how the Protocols of Zion became a believed and liked source for people who organised pogroms and ethnic cleansings.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 17, 2017, 06:10:55 AM
I doubt this will get traction with Republicans, but at least it is being discussed.  Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat, not just a concern for the US under the 25th Amendment.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/democrats-in-congress-explore-creating-an-expert-panel-on-trump-rsquo-s-mental-health/?WT.mc_id=SA_DD_20170816
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 17, 2017, 06:12:58 AM
Hahahaha ... the Ministry of Truth is effective!
Not from any ministry of truth, from your links and their own words.

But it's not surprising you support Nazis and white nationalists and antisemitism.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 06:26:40 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 17, 2017, 06:31:05 AM
"What Dave thinks"

= Interpretation of Data

!= Data point

#realsciencelesson


It's not a "data point" on whatever it is Dave "thinks" about.
It is a "data point" on how Dave "thinks".

#actualsciencelesson
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 17, 2017, 06:32:17 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.
lol indeed.
In what sense is Kim "under control" now, more than he was a year ago?

You are one gullible tool, Hawkins.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 17, 2017, 06:32:48 AM
"What Dave thinks"

= Interpretation of Data

!= Data point

#realsciencelesson


Wrong.

Stated interpretations of data are data points in themselves, for specific hypotheses.

Such an hypothesis being, f.e. "How much of a hold does white nationalist propaganda have on whites who do not openly define themselves as white nationalists".
"Or, in simpler terms, "Is dave a crypto-racist, aware or not".

#StatingTheObvious
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 17, 2017, 06:33:04 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.
Yep, the NK regime develops miniaturized nuclear warheads and ICBM delivery systems, and together both Dear Leaders bring the world the closest it has been to a nuclear exchange in decades.. 

Sounds "under control".

Holy fuck you are one clueless puppet Hawkins.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 17, 2017, 06:34:50 AM
So...
You know what? Fine. Go ahead dave. Don't hold back. Tell us what YOU think is the truth.

Should be an interesting 'data point'.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Faid on August 17, 2017, 06:35:25 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.
Hahaha what
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 17, 2017, 07:40:09 AM
Hahahaha ... the Ministry of Truth is effective!
I can only assume you are referring to pro-Trump propaganda here, since "Ministry" implies government, and Trump is the head of the government, so...
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 17, 2017, 07:43:15 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.
He doesn't have ol' Kim under control, but he sure is trying to antagonize Kim further.

All he knows is bullying and suing.  I've worked with Koreans, he can't sue them and bullying them just makes them more determined.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: vivisectus on August 17, 2017, 07:43:36 AM
"Trump's mental state is a worldwide threat"

Lol

This about a guy who  has somehow managed to get Kim Jong Un under control while his predecessor was unable to.

Dave, what exactly did he achieve? How is Kim under control now? And what has been achieved that is better than what was happening before?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2017, 08:26:26 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/report-%E2%80%98unite-right%E2%80%99-organizer-jason-kessler-was-occupy-movement-obama-supporter-8-m

 ::)   From your own source:

Quote
Kessler himself has placed his "red-pilling" around December of 2013 when a PR executive was publicly excoriated for a tasteless Twitter joke about AIDS in Africa.

Regarding the incident, Kessler stated "... so it was just a little race joke, nothing that big of a deal, she didn't have that many followers, she probably didn't think anybody was gonna see it,"

Regardless of Kessler's past politics, the rightward shift in his views was first put on display in November, 2016 when his tirade against Wes Bellamy began.

So what was this then, a Honey Pot to get pictures of White Nationalists acting badly?  Wasn't Trump a Democrat until a couple of years ago? And a Hillary Clinton supporter? 

Dave, what point is it that you wish to make about Kessler?    How does his former support of Obama and Occupy mean he can't be a White Supremacist now, as he himself claims? 
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 17, 2017, 08:28:26 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/report-%E2%80%98unite-right%E2%80%99-organizer-jason-kessler-was-occupy-movement-obama-supporter-8-m
Lol
http://freekeene.com
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Testy Calibrate on August 17, 2017, 08:32:15 AM
Hahahaha ... the Ministry of Truth is effective!
If you only knew what that reference means.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: fredbear on August 17, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Dave.

I think the point that people here are having trouble dealing with regarding your attitude is trying to parse what appears to be acceptance of overt racism and indeed fascism. There are some distinct historical parallels going on here. When your president is interpreted as lending, at the very least, tacit support for self-avowed Nazis, you have to begin to wonder if you should still be on that side. That is if you understand the issue and consider yourself to have any semblance of morality. If someone in authority describes one side as comprising "very fine people" and those people have stood in solidarity beside Nazis, to many people those "very fine" people have crossed a line and are no longer quite so "very fine". And that in turn brings into question the morality of the authority issuing those statements.

So, Dave, the question for you is, given a binary choice, would you find yourself standing on the side of the Nazis, or on the side of those who oppose Nazism and everything it stands for? Because it looks to a lot of people quite obvious which side your president has chosen. And it looks suspiciously like you have also already chosen. Please tell me I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 09:03:45 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.  However, I am in favor of free speech as long as it's non-violent and follows established laws.  I am even in favor of people like YOU GUYS being free to voice your wacko views!
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 17, 2017, 09:08:30 AM
What Fredbear said.

Dave, some or most of us don't want to believe you are a racist white supremacist, so we try to interpret your expressed support for every fool thing Trump says/does as a symptom of your lack of knowledge or tendency to ignore anything you don't want to believe. I mean, that's the UP side, where we aren't questioning your moral values.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 17, 2017, 09:09:30 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.  However, I am in favor of free speech as long as it's non-violent and follows established laws.  I even in favor of people like YOU GUYS being free to voice your wacko views!
How are our non-racist views 'wacky'?
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2017, 09:11:25 AM
Popper thinks you're an idiot, Dave. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: JonF on August 17, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.

Trump doesn't. 

People who bring semiautomatic weapons, clubs, and homemade riot shields with sharpened edges are not intending peace.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Dave Hawkins on August 17, 2017, 09:29:20 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.  However, I am in favor of free speech as long as it's non-violent and follows established laws.  I even in favor of people like YOU GUYS being free to voice your wacko views!
How are our non-racist views 'wacky'?
Where to begin?  For starters you think a human is just another animal ... whereas I think there are extremely important fundamental differences in humans and every other creature.  If we were to take your view to it's logical conclusion, who knows where it would lead ... educating chimpanzees in public schools perhaps?  I don't know.  One thing that your view led to historically was putting Ota Benga in a cage like a zoo animal.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: Photon on August 17, 2017, 09:46:07 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.  However, I am in favor of free speech as long as it's non-violent and follows established laws.  I even in favor of people like YOU GUYS being free to voice your wacko views!
How are our non-racist views 'wacky'?
Where to begin?  For starters you think a human is just another animal ... whereas I think there are extremely important fundamental differences in humans and every other creature.  If we were to take your view to it's logical conclusion, who knows where it would lead ... educating chimpanzees in public schools perhaps?  I don't know.  One thing that your view led to historically was putting Ota Benga in a cage like a zoo animal.

Dave you fucking numpty, it was the RACISTS who bought Ota Benga from slave traders and displayed him in a zoo. The exact kind of people that were at a white nationalist rally the past weekend. They co-opted science, willfully warped and misunderstood it, and used it for their own myopic and selfish purposes.  That last sentence is directly lifted from YOUR playbook, by the way.

Damn, but you're dense. Nazis are celebrating your President, and you are too clueless to figure out why.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: BenTheBiased on August 17, 2017, 09:48:54 AM
There are extremely important fundamental differences between giraffes and every other creature. If we take the idea that giraffes are just another animal to its logical conclusion, who knows where it would lead. Forcing them to live in the water perhaps?

That's you. That's how stupid you sound. I need to say this because I know you won't get it otherwise.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: VoxRat on August 17, 2017, 09:50:40 AM
Humans are animals.
Just ask Linnaeus.
"just animals" is your choice of words, not mine or any one else you're trying to characterize as "wacky".
It is not the views of anyone here that was responsible for the Ota Benga story.

Try again.
Title: Re: Relax, Donald Trump is Stone Cold Sane
Post by: borealis on August 17, 2017, 10:03:46 AM
I completely disagree with the Nazi philosophy.  However, I am in favor of free speech as long as it's non-violent and follows established laws.  I even in favor of people like YOU GUYS being free to voice your wacko views!
How are our non-racist views 'wacky'?
Where to begin?  For starters you think a human is just another animal ... whereas I think there are extremely important fundamental differences in humans and every other creature.  If we were to take your view to it's logical conclusion, who knows where it would lead ... educating chimpanzees in p