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Topic: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World) (Read 104728 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23200
Here's a rabbit eye view of the westernmost swath of my pasture ... quite a nice diverse mix ... made so by animal pruning plus manure from goats and chickens.  And quite bit of rain.



I can almost smell the restoration.  And it smells of shit.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23201
 As I have said, the psychology at this forum is very interesting.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23202
Look ... Guys ... If you want to argue about something, argue with me about land allocation within my 5000 acre thought experiment.   Or about wind powered resistive electric heating.

Then, when we point out the problems Dave's ideas create in those areas, Dave will insist on talking about something else. It's like whack-a-mole. :D
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23203
It's people like Allan Savory that are doing the real breakthroughs in science.  Professional scientists working in the life sciences rarely make major breakthroughs. It's more typical for them to simply support the agendas of their respective corporations.
Precisely what breakthroughs has Savory come up with lately? Any papers published recently?

Or are you once again just talking out of your ass? As usual. Big mouth, little hands. Lots of claims, very little actual work. Well. other than selling stuff they don't need to gullible rubes?
Are we there yet?

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23204
Where's the diversity?

I see Fescue and Medicago.
I don't see any alfalfa, just fescue and Trifolium pretense, red clover.

red clover, note white markings on leaves and floweret structure.



alfalfa


  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23205
As I have said, the psychology at this forum is very interesting.
Regardless, only two different species of plant are visible in your photo. That hardly represents diversity. Perhaps you have more species elsewhere in your field?

  • Fenrir
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23206
Oops.

Thanks Borealis.

So that makes a staggering diversity of two sown pasture plants. 

What an amazing and diverse ecosystem you have there David.
It's what plants crave.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23207
Yes there are many more species in my pasture.  I have no idea what some of them are.  There is red clover and fescue and brome and foxtail and a warm season grass that I think is called eastern gamma, but then there are all kinds of other species that I have no idea what they are.  I will try to be to be a good reductionist scientist here soon and take pictures of some individual plants.

The contrast between my pasture and the neighbors field of course is that mine is a poly culture of perennial grasses and his is a monoculture of soybeans this year and will be corn next year.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23208
Oops.

Thanks Borealis.

So that makes a staggering diversity of two sown pasture plants. 

What an amazing and diverse ecosystem you have there David.
You're an idiot.

Congratulations!

  • Fenrir
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23209
So what you are saying is that your neighbour is a farmer who produces crops for a living while you are a wanker who tortures goats for a hobby.

Thanks for pointing out the distinction though I'm fairly sure most of us already picked up the subtle clues.

*No, that is not a promotion of row farming, just pointing out the rank hypocrisy.
It's what plants crave.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23210
Quote
red clover and fescue and brome and foxtail and a warm season grass that I think is called eastern gamma,
Add in Timothy and Browntop, subtract fescue, (I'm not sure about the gramma grass, don't recall my grandfather naming it for me) and it would be a standard old-fashioned hay and pasture mix, what every farmer for many decades used for dairy and beef cattle in eastern Canada, from the 1930s onward (and likely before - I only know from the 30s). The absence of fescue in those old-fashioned mixes is probably why fescue foot-rot and other ergot related illnesses were almost unheard of here.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23211
Oops.

Thanks Borealis.

So that makes a staggering diversity of two sown pasture plants. 

What an amazing and diverse ecosystem you have there David.
You're an idiot.

Congratulations!
How is he an idiot when you're the one who posted a photo with only two kinds of plants in it?

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23212
Reread my post and you'll probably be able to figure it out.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23213
Reread my post and you'll probably be able to figure it out.
Nope. It makes no sense to me as a response, sorry.

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23214
Reread my post and you'll probably be able to figure it out.
Nope. It makes no sense to me as a response, sorry.
Nor likely anyone else. Bluffy probably was just knee-jerking. If he really wanted to communicate he'd have specified the post he referred to. But one of Bluffy's standard tactics is to leave his posts vague enough to hopefully squirm out of it.
Are we there yet?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23215
... one of Bluffy's standard tactics is to leave his posts vague enough to hopefully squirm out of it.
  :sadyes:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23216
Here's another pic of my 10 acres ...




In any case, my guess is that there are 20 species of grasses and forbs on my property now whereas when I bought the property it was a monoculture alternating between corn and soy beans.  Under that program, topsoil was being lost, but under my program it is actually "uppening."  Yes, I know, people like Voxrat won't believe me until I jump through the various reductionist hoops, but trying to make people like Voxrat  is not my primary goal anyway.  But for the fun of it, if I get around to it, I will post some pictures of some individual plants.  And one of these years if I get around to it, I will get the soil conservation office out here and do some soil carbon testing. My mentors in rotational grazing report significant increases year after year so it would be fun to see that here as well.  But even without all these reductionist measures, there is  no question that the pasture is getting more productive in response to my program.  And that is causing me to think about inviting someone else to set up their own program here because this is really way too much land for me.  At least for the purpose of producing food for me and my family. Now if I was going to do this for money then it's much too small. But I don't think I am.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23217
there is  no question that the pasture is getting more productive in response to my program.
Sure there is.

"No question in Dave Hawkins's mind" =/= "No question"
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • MikeS
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23218
Yes there are many more species in my pasture.  I have no idea what some of them are.  There is red clover and fescue and brome and foxtail and a warm season grass that I think is called eastern gamma, but then there are all kinds of other species that I have no idea what they are.  I will try to be to be a good reductionist scientist here soon and take pictures of some individual plants.

The contrast between my pasture and the neighbors field of course is that mine is a poly culture of perennial grasses and his is a monoculture of soybeans this year and will be corn next year.
So how many calories will your neighbor produce?

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23219
Yes there are many more species in my pasture.  I have no idea what some of them are.  There is red clover and fescue and brome and foxtail and a warm season grass that I think is called eastern gamma, but then there are all kinds of other species that I have no idea what they are.  I will try to be to be a good reductionist scientist here soon and take pictures of some individual plants.

The contrast between my pasture and the neighbors field of course is that mine is a poly culture of perennial grasses and his is a monoculture of soybeans this year and will be corn next year.
So how many calories will your neighbor produce?
Wrong question.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23220
Wrong question.
That is not for you to decide.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23221
A better question is ...

How many people could he feed sustainably with no input on 10 of his acres using his program vs. how many people could I feed sustainably with no input on 10 of my acres using my program.

:-)

:wave:

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23222
The answer is ... "ZERO vs. probably two ... maybe three or four."

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23223
You aren't feeding yourself sustainably yet, Dave.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #23224
A better question is ...

How many people could he feed sustainably with no input on 10 of his acres using his program vs. how many people could I feed sustainably with no input on 10 of my acres using my program.

Well we know the answer for your "program":  < 1
We don't know the answer for your neighbor's.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins