Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • Talkrational: all dead and empty except for a few baboons braying among the ruins

Topic: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group (Read 9214 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1075
And we haven't found out what other animals in Tarptown have died in recent weeks.  Bound to have been at least one.

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1076
That's pretty much the situation we have in mainstream geology classrooms these days.
Says someone who's never been in a geology class...   Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
  • Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 03:59:03 PM by entropy
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1077
That's pretty much the situation we have in mainstream geology classrooms these days.

LOL!  Backed into a corner by his own stupidity, Davie-dip resorts to the usual empty bluster and bravado.  Same as it ever was.   :p

Still too much of a chickenshit to discuss the geology of his own state too I see.

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1078
At least Dave has stopped blathering about "incredibly flat and incredibly thin!"  So, maybe he's learned something.
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1079
Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
Are you seriously saying that, until recently, Dave hadn't figured out that water flows downhill?
Truth is out of style

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1080
That's pretty much the situation we have in mainstream geology classrooms these days.

LOL!  Backed into a corner by his own stupidity, Davie-dip resorts to the usual empty bluster and bravado.  Same as it ever was.   :p
With just a soupçon of world-wide conspiracy.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1081
Hey here's a question: if cratons are just stuck together out of lots of random old bits, which seems to be the case, why are they so stable?
Cratons are usually the center bits (i.e. the canadian shield) > 2.5Gya...
Yes, I do realise this. :p

...while everything else is glued, glommed and cemented into it.  But there's just not much left that's "original", but's broken apart and cemented together a few times over earth's history tends to mix stuff up.
That, too. :grin:

Ok, this is a good example. The Canadian section of the Laurentian craton is composite. Very much composite, as I've just found out by looking at the detailed cross sections.

That Superior "well-defined craton" just under the "Laurentia" label makes it sound like a "big lump of rock", but in fact it's built up of all sorts of random bits and pieces, including bits of ancient ocean floor sliding under other Archaean crust, and including Archaean sediments scraped off said ocean floor and piled up between the base of the eroded orogeny, that was at one side of said ocean floor, and the large block of other Archaean crust that it collided with. It just happened a long time ago, and it's been stable ever since.



So this is a case where we have old bits of an orogeny (labelled "Wawa"), with relict ocean floor attached, just "glommed on" to the Wabigoon/Winnipeg lump, which itself is just "glommed on" to the North Caribou lump which, being a superterrane itself, is just a whole lot of old lumps "glommed on" to each other. And, between the North Caribou and the Winnipeg is another whole lot of Archaean sediment that got trapped between the two.

In other words, the whole thing is just a random clusterfuck of whatever was lying around at the time, including large volumes of loose sediment. Yet, despite this, it's all listed under "Laurentia" and it's all called a craton and it has been stable for around 2.5 billion years.

This is the bit that intrigues me. Why is the thing so stable, if it's apparently just as much of a mess as the bits that aren't?


Stability is a misnomer, they tilt and move but they DO float higher compared to oceanic plates...
Yup. IIRC it's partly due to them trapping heat under the thicker crust there. Expands the rock and makes it more buoyant. This was mentioned in the recent Zealandia paper as part of the reason why it sank when the crust was thinned.[1] And the floating higher is also due to the extra thickness of course (basic Archimedes stuff).

And of course I realise that cratons move around the planet, and tilt and bend when sediment piles up on their edges, but the thing is they still tend to behave like one big solid lump over billions of years. That's what I mean by "stability". They are "building blocks" that just keep getting rearranged, without getting fragmented.

...plus IIRC the continental plates, made up of sedimentary profiles, tend to buckle and roil at impact while the oceanic plates are a bit more structurally sound.  The combination is why you see subduction more often than buckling, suture or orogeny at the plate boundaries between land and ocean plates.
I suppose more structurally sound makes sense given that ocean floor is usually igneous, although on the other hand it is also usually thinner.

That "Wawa" bit of ocean floor is an odd case. It obviously thought about subducting, but then decided it didn't want to.
Just looked it up. The term they use is "thermal relaxation".
  • Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 05:21:52 PM by osmanthus
Truth is out of style

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1082
Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
Are you seriously saying that, until recently, Dave hadn't figured out that water flows downhill?

the concept of ocean is hard for a guy from missouri, "the show me state".
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1083
Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
Are you seriously saying that, until recently, Dave hadn't figured out that water flows downhill?

the concept of ocean is hard for a guy from missouri, "the show me state".
So he presumably knows about the Missouri River, and presumably knows that it flows into the other big river that starts with M and ends with I, and presumably has heard of New Orleans, but didn't realise rivers generally flow to the sea?

Anyone got a link for this? It sounds awesome. :grin:
Truth is out of style

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1084
Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
Are you seriously saying that, until recently, Dave hadn't figured out that water flows downhill?

the concept of ocean is hard for a guy from missouri, "the show me state".
So he presumably knows about the Missouri River, and presumably knows that it flows into the other big river that starts with M and ends with I, and presumably has heard of New Orleans, but didn't realise rivers generally flow to the sea?

Anyone got a link for this? It sounds awesome. :grin:

no no no. you need to look at one river at a time. There's the missouri river. It's a river. There's the Mississippi river. It's a river. Then there's beyond here there be monsters. Dawinists pretend they are oceans.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Zombies!
  • These violent delights have violent ends.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1085
Especially if there are university professors getting paid large salaries to teach the theory that it was Girl Scouts selling cookies that caused the devastation of those two cities.
So, no overwhelming proof of the flood?
You are just going to run off to sulk?
Oh Dave...
  • Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 05:07:26 PM by Zombies!
I really should call your department head and tell him or her how badly you are behaving while posing as a credentialed professional scientist.

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1086
We're past that part now, zombies. Now we're at the amazed debrief of the scene where Dave's fight club reenactment transpired part.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1087
Do you think a guy who learned not so long ago that rivers run to the sea is really someone we should pay attention to on this subject?
Are you seriously saying that, until recently, Dave hadn't figured out that water flows downhill?
the concept of ocean is hard for a guy from missouri, "the show me state".
So he presumably knows about the Missouri River, and presumably knows that it flows into the other big river that starts with M and ends with I, and presumably has heard of New Orleans, but didn't realise rivers generally flow to the sea?

Anyone got a link for this? It sounds awesome. :grin:
no no no. you need to look at one river at a time. There's the missouri river. It's a river. There's the Mississippi river. It's a river. Then there's beyond here there be monsters. Dawinists pretend they are oceans.
So was this Dave being holistic rather than reductionist, and using his high speed mind to see the big picture instead of getting lost in trivial detail?
Truth is out of style

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1088
I don't remember that. A link would be nice.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1089
I don't remember it either. I'm just saying. It's Dave. Truth is bound to be stranger than fiction.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1090
Fair point.
Truth is out of style

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1091
I don't remember it either. I'm just saying. It's Dave. Truth is bound to be stranger than fiction.
Yeah, but it has a whiff of the smell of an overstatement. I think I either remember or recognize all the classics except for Dawkins where I never participated.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • Fenrir
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1092
Quote from: oz mantis
And of course I realise that cratons move around the planet, and tilt and bend when sediment piles up on their edges, but the thing is they still tend to behave like one big solid lump over billions of years. That's what I mean by "stability". They are "building blocks" that just keep getting rearranged, without getting fragmented.

It would look that way when you are only seeing ones that didn't get fragmented. Do the time sequences really suggest that all of these large conglomerate blocks are stable throughout history? Had to have not existed at some point if they are made up of concreted chunks which must have originated in other blocks?
It's what plants crave.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1093
Yeah even for Dave that sounds like maybe someone misread him. He words things in confusing order sometimes.

Otoh, something about beaches apparently makes him very uncomfortable so maybe he really does think some rivers run the opposite direction. Uphill. From the ocean. Or emerge and disappear somewhere en route to Eden. Rivers. The mysterious blue veiny network on those pull-down maps in school...

  • Zombies!
  • These violent delights have violent ends.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1094
How do you have a nice neat layer deposition theory for a global cataclysm that has only occurred once in history?    Do scientists have debris deposition theories for Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I for one am not even close to having such a theory.  But what I CAN tell you is that the calm placid shallow sea theory is complete bollocks.    And I can tell you that confidently with half my brain tied behind my back just to make it fair. I predict that we are going to have "the third way of geology" just like we have "the third way of biology" because some geologists are going to get tired of holding their noses and squinting when reading about these  stupid calm placid sea theories.
That is some class 'A' seething butt-hurt, there.
That looks like a preteen tantrum.  This is a kid that's tired of being laughed at for peeing their shorts.
Quote
I for one am not even close to having such a theory.  But what I CAN tell you is that
there is no proof of a global flood?  We know, we went over this, we laughed at you, you ran away, red faced. 

Then you forgot, and we all got to watch it happen again!
Yeah even for Dave that sounds like maybe someone misread him. He words things in confusing order sometimes.

Otoh, something about beaches apparently makes him very uncomfortable so maybe he really does think some rivers run the opposite direction. Uphill. From the ocean. Or emerge and disappear somewhere en route to Eden. Rivers. The mysterious blue veiny network on those pull-down maps in school...
"mysterious blue veiny network" is my new band name.

'
I really should call your department head and tell him or her how badly you are behaving while posing as a credentialed professional scientist.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1095
Quote from: oz mantis
And of course I realise that cratons move around the planet, and tilt and bend when sediment piles up on their edges, but the thing is they still tend to behave like one big solid lump over billions of years. That's what I mean by "stability". They are "building blocks" that just keep getting rearranged, without getting fragmented.

It would look that way when you are only seeing ones that didn't get fragmented. Do the time sequences really suggest that all of these large conglomerate blocks are stable throughout history?
Well, that's what the geologists reckon.

Had to have not existed at some point if they are made up of concreted chunks which must have originated in other blocks?
Yup. Just a very long time ago. One thing odd about them is the lithosphere beneath them. The mantle section of that is incredibly thick, with the asthenosphere being depressed by literally miles.

ETA: Wiki reckons the thick lithospheric mantle is an important bit, but appears to have bugger all idea about how they formed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craton#Structure

Although "2) successive subducting plates of oceanic lithosphere became lodged beneath a proto-craton in an under-plating process" sounds plausible, since there is apparently at least one existing example under Laurentia.
  • Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:16:24 PM by osmanthus
Truth is out of style

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1096
"Dave thinks rivers run FROM the sea"

Hey why not add to the myths!

  • Zombies!
  • These violent delights have violent ends.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1097
"Dave thinks rivers run FROM the sea"

Hey why not add to the myths!
Like talking snakes?
I really should call your department head and tell him or her how badly you are behaving while posing as a credentialed professional scientist.

  • Fenrir
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1098
Quote from: Zombies
That is some class 'A' seething butt-hurt, there.
That looks like a preteen tantrum.  This is a kid that's tired of being laughed at for peeing their shorts while standing in front of the urinal yet refusing to acknowledge its existence.

Fyp, that last bit is important.
It's what plants crave.

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1099
"Dave thinks rivers run FROM the sea"

Hey why not add to the myths!

See how this works Dave? A bunch of people said 'waitaminute, citation needed, we don't recall dave believing any such thing. not that it isn't possible'.

Even while taking the piss out of you, Dave, people interested in truth ask for proof.

And be reasonable, who knows what you might want us to believe at any one time, you've got plenty of weird ideas about the world.