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Topic: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group (Read 9220 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1150
Not showing up in my library yet. :(
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1151
The link to the journal (Precambrian Research) says the October and November issues are still in progress.
Truth is out of style

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1152
Hey they have some open access articles too. :happydance:

Enriched lithospheric mantle keel below the Scottish margin of the North Atlantic Craton: Evidence from the Palaeoproterozoic Scourie Dyke Swarm and mantle xenoliths

Hell of a title. Incidentally that chunk of craton under Scotland is derived from the same chunk that's under southern Greenland, so obviously some cratons can rupture in some places sometimes.
Truth is out of style

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1153
Let's summarize this thread ...

1) Testy did NOT explain anything
2) A creationist - me - raised everyone's awareness about Sloss and megasequences ... you're welcome!
3) We discussed sandstones in various parts of N. America (and Israel) which people like Snelling say were all deposited at the same time.  I think that's probably true and that little blurb from Ager (if accurate) supports this idea ... but it is difficult to prove given the nature of geology
4) To my way of thinking, there is no way you can get a continent sized sandstone layer that's incredibly flat and incredibly thin with small, calm, placid regional inundations over millions of years ... especially when you try to explain the 30 foot boulders at the base of the layers.  The only way you get that is with some sort of massive global cataclysm ... which is very difficult to model, which is why it's taking so much time and money by creationists.


LOL!  I'd forgotten about Dave's little "summaries" where he lies about 99% of the thread and pats himself on the back boasting how his clever and decisive arguments won the day.   :p

Hey Dave, ready to discuss the geology of Missouri yet?



Or are your shorts still badly stained from the last time?

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1154
I still reckon they don't look like elephants.
Truth is out of style

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1155
More like walruses.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1156
By the way, today I happened to run across some shots of the cliffs on the inside on the Santorini caldera (in a magazine in a cafe). At first glance I thought it was sedimentary rock, but it's all volcanic. Some parts of the cliffs have amazing layering, with quite range of colours.

ETA: Example from the web.

  • Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 07:46:12 AM by osmanthus
Truth is out of style

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1157
I've been there!
And, to bring the discussion full circle, the nailing down of the exact date of the epic eruption* is one of the hot topics in radiocarbon chronometry.

* not mentioned, for some reason, in that most complete and reliable account of all of history, the Holy Bibble.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1158
Neat image, os.

Here's the nicely worn exposed basalt on the shore at Cape Split, NS.



Quote
Cape Split is located in Kings County and is a continuation of the North Mountain range, which is made of tholeiitic basalt.[1] The cape separates the main part of the Bay of Fundy from the Minas Basin, a sub-basin to the east.
The cape itself is 7 km (4 mi) long and ranges between several kilometres to several dozen metres in width. Both sides of the headland end in high cliffs overlooking treacherous tidal currents in the Minas Channel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Split

relevant volcanology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanology_of_Eastern_Canada#Fundy_Basin

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1159
I see Dave is reduced to lurking on the thread, dodging all evidence and just popping up occasionally to make another short stupid claim.

Some things never do change.

  • MikeS
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1160
Dave,
Geologists know about these large formations, its just that data isn't always catagorized in a standard format.  Some is noted by Universities, others by Federal functions (USGS), others by private corporations (oil an gas drilling).  But geologists have been making stratigraphic composite charts for almost as long as they have studied these formations.

http://www.explorationgeology.com/public_html/General_Geology/General_Geology_US_Canada.html
http://www.explorationgeology.com/public_html/Images/WY%20Strat%20Nomenclture%20web.jpg


Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1161
Yeah even for Dave that sounds like maybe someone misread him. He words things in confusing order sometimes.

Otoh, something about beaches apparently makes him very uncomfortable so maybe he really does think some rivers run the opposite direction. Uphill. From the ocean. Or emerge and disappear somewhere en route to Eden. Rivers. The mysterious blue veiny network on those pull-down maps in school...
Sorry guys, (and Dave).  It was something I thought I recalled from old TR the last time Dave decided to bring up sandstone.    Didn't find it searching, and no one else remembers then I'm happy to apologize to Dave for the slight. 

Possibly you were thinking of something like this...
http://talkrational.org/archive/showthread.php?p=275083#post275083

Looks like someone extrapolating from Dave's claims.

He did, and presumably still does, however, believe that plants make it rain. I trust we all remember that fun one.
Yeah, that could be.  
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1162
Let's summarize this thread ...

1) Testy did NOT explain anything
2) A creationist - me - raised everyone's awareness about Sloss and megasequences ... you're welcome!
3) We discussed sandstones in various parts of N. America (and Israel) which people like Snelling say were all deposited at the same time.  I think that's probably true and that little blurb from Ager (if accurate) supports this idea ... but it is difficult to prove given the nature of geology
4) To my way of thinking, there is no way you can get a continent sized sandstone layer that's incredibly flat and incredibly thin with small, calm, placid regional inundations over millions of years ... especially when you try to explain the 30 foot boulders at the base of the layers.  The only way you get that is with some sort of massive global cataclysm ... which is very difficult to model, which is why it's taking so much time and money by creationists.

Summarizing this thread: Dave avoided pingu's 14c thread. Dave argued using evidence that falsified his own claim. Dave is still an idiot.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1163
Hmm ... my buddy Derek Ager ... who I've quoted before ...

Quote
British geologist Derek Ager in his book The Nature of the Stratigraphical Record4 marvelled at the way sedimentary rocks layers persisted for thousands of kilometres across continents. Like a blanket, they are relatively thin compared with the area they cover. https://creation.com/continent-wide-sedimentary-strata
If he did in fact "marvel" at that, then that's interesting because it probably means he wasn't taught about those continent sized sedimentary layers in school.  He was probably taught about "provincial" ones denominated in various ways in various places ... "Tapeats" ... "Potsdam" ... "Lamotte" ... etc. 

If I had to summarize what Derek Ager said, it would be something like this ... "Look guys, Lyell is full of shit ... there's catastrophes everywhere we look in the geologic column.  And sandstones are f***ing huge ... continent sized in fact ... why wasn't I taught this in school?"

If you had to summarize what Aver said... you'd have to first actually read it.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1164
I've been there!
And, to bring the discussion full circle, the nailing down of the exact date of the epic eruption* is one of the hot topics in radiocarbon chronometry.

* not mentioned, for some reason, in that most complete and reliable account of all of history, the Holy Bibble.
Wiki says that the archaeologists are still grumbling about the C14 dates, 3 years after that blog post was written. Makes you wonder why they wanted C14 dates if they're not going to like them. ::)

ETA: I'd like to see Akrotiri.
  • Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:19:08 PM by osmanthus
Truth is out of style

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1165
If they weren't what they wanted they would have hidden the results, right, Davie-doodles?
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1166
I've been there!
And, to bring the discussion full circle, the nailing down of the exact date of the epic eruption* is one of the hot topics in radiocarbon chronometry.

* not mentioned, for some reason, in that most complete and reliable account of all of history, the Holy Bibble.
Wiki says that the archaeologists are still grumbling about the C14 dates, 3 years after that blog post was written. Makes you wonder why they wanted C14 dates if they're not going to like them. ::)

ETA: I'd like to see Akrotiri.

That looks like a fun debate. We've got something similar here, with the megafauna extinction debate. Lots of work being done trying to figure out the extent (or not) of overlap between various megafauna extinctions and human arrival. All right at the end of C14's range, and spread over a large region. Also very politicised (amongst scientists, not the general public).
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1167
Let me guess. Some of them don't want any indication that the Aborigines might have been responsible for extinctions? If they weren't, that would make them pretty much unique in human history, and although I am impressed with their  ability to adapt I'm not sure they are that unique. It's quite possible that they made mistakes while they were adapting. It's even possible that they deliberately targeted some of the more dangerous species.
Truth is out of style

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1168
This also means that subduction zones are not always collisional. They can also result in significant extension of the crust on the slab that isn't subducting (check out slab roll-back, ridge-push and slab-pull mechanisms, and back-arc basins).
Just took a look at those. Nifty stuff. I can see how it would work. Now I'm wondering if that had anything to do with Zealandia splitting off from the east coast of Oz and western Antarctica. I'll have to look at that paper again.
Truth is out of style

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1169
This brings up something. According to basic texts (like Wiki) the lithosphere only deforms either elastically or by brittle fracture, while the asthenosphere exhibits viscous flow and plastic deformation. But this is obviously the kindergarten-level explanation, because there are heaps of examples of plastic deformation in various parts of the lithosphere's surface.

And, judging from what I've been reading the last couple of days, there would also have to be heaps of examples of plastic deformation in the lithospheric mantle underneath cratons.
Truth is out of style

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1170
Handy map, showing extent of sediment cover over Laurentia. Short version is that everything north of Lake Superior and east of Alberta has no "rock laid down by water".
Truth is out of style

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1171
I like croutons. They are great on salad. I try to avoid the plastic deformed ones, but it's still good with enough lithoranch dressing.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1172
I remember the first time an Italian offered me biscotti to dunk in my wine. Hadn't heard of it before, but it works really well. Great way to annoy wine snobs. They hate it when you dunk your biscuits in wine.
Truth is out of style

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1173
Handy map, showing extent of sediment cover over Laurentia. Short version is that everything north of Lake Superior and east of Alberta has no "rock laid down by water".
Have you considered the possibility that it might have been eroded away?  Have you considered the possibility that perhaps it was under water which was not carrying a sediment load?   You don't think very much do you?

  • borealis
  • Administrator
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1174
Angels may have licked it clean!