Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • Talk Rational: Let's form an investigative committee to draft a proposal

Topic: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group (Read 9221 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1675
Where's the evidence that all those DIFFERENT formations are one continuous sheet? (Let alone one "extraordinarily thin" or  "extraordinarily flat" one?  :dunno:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1676
See this is the problem with your continuous, mindless slogan-like invocation of the "Elephant in the Room" metaphor.
The whole idea of the metaphor is that there is something so huge and massive and undeniable right in front of whoever doesn't agree with you that they have to go out of their way to pretend to not notice it.
But if you have to ask them to ASSUME the thing in the room is an elephant - and not the dust bunny it appears to be from all  available evidence -  the metaphor loses pretty much all its punch.   :(
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1677
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1678
...
And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
Bravado, more often than not, takes the form of snark in a Hawkins "argument".
There's no place for giving straight answers to straight questions in the Hawkins bluff -> bluster/bravado -> badger cycle.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1679
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.

Quartzite is a metamorphic rock, so you'll also have to explain how the formations in Utah and South Dakota was subjected to such heat and pressure in the time since it was deposited.
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1680
"describe what in detail?"
Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.
No u.

Dummy.

First step is to establish that these differently named layers are indeed one sandstone layer. 

Ball's in your court.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1681
As always, researching Dave's nonsense results in learning something interesting. 

Here is a cross section of the American Fork Canyon which contains some of Dave's Tintic Quartzite. 

Note that it is at the bottom of a huge amount of sediment on the South side of the canyon, but sitting right on top of the Mutual Formation on the North side.  This cartoon is confirmed by looking at the USGS data for the region (green square).    (this is a really beautiful website BTW, if you're actually interested in Geology and don't think that having googled the names of a few things gives you specific knowledge of those things...   https://geology.utah.gov/apps/intgeomap/#)



  • Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 07:05:44 AM by entropy
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1682
The Deadwood Quartzite is an even bigger problem for Dave

This material was laid down, metamorphosed and eroded into boulders. Some of these which were then rounded by surf then marine organisms made 1-2 inch bore holes in them.  

All while submerged and being buried by sediment in a catastrophic global flood...
  • Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 06:54:54 AM by entropy
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1683
And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.

Disagree.  He isn't playing being dumb.  Davie-dip is the real deal.

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1684
Where's the evidence that all those DIFFERENT formations are one continuous sheet? (Let alone one "extraordinarily thin" or  "extraordinarily flat" one?  :dunno:
Who decided that they are "DIFFERENT"? Based upon what? "I'm a geologist and I live in Potsdam, New York ... hmm I think I'll name this sandstone 'Potsdam' ..."

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1685
Where's the evidence that all those DIFFERENT formations are one continuous sheet? (Let alone one "extraordinarily thin" or  "extraordinarily flat" one?  :dunno:
Who decided that they are "DIFFERENT"? Based upon what? "I'm a geologist and I live in Potsdam, New York ... hmm I think I'll name this sandstone 'Potsdam' ..."
Look at the formations you listed. Different depths, different compositions, some metamorphic.  Obviously the same, right?
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1686
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1687
Where's the evidence that all those DIFFERENT formations are one continuous sheet? (Let alone one "extraordinarily thin" or  "extraordinarily flat" one?  :dunno:
Who decided that they are "DIFFERENT"? Based upon what? "I'm a geologist and I live in Potsdam, New York ... hmm I think I'll name this sandstone 'Potsdam' ..."
:facepalm:

First of all, the default assumption is NOT that they ARE all part of one continuous sheet.
Even if they turned out to have similar composition.
Which they don't.
AND they are not "extraordinarily thin" or "extraordinarily flat".
See - just f'rinstance -  the American Fork Canyon diagram Entropy posted, above.

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1688
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.
That's nice.
But the thing that you want to ASSUME is
Quote
big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.
... just doesn't seem to exist.

So is that all you got?

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1689
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.

Speaking of playing dumb...

You keep bringing up this St. Simon Sandstone.

What is it?
I pointed out weeks ago that it appears to be some sort of brain fart  on the part of what appears to be your ONLY source on all this bullshit - some ICR apologist hack. It doesn't bother you that he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about?

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1690
See this is the problem with your continuous, mindless slogan-like invocation of the "Elephant in the Room" metaphor.
The whole idea of the metaphor is that there is something so huge and massive and undeniable right in front of whoever doesn't agree with you that they have to go out of their way to pretend to not notice it.
But if you have to ask them to ASSUME the thing in the room is an elephant - and not the dust bunny it appears to be from all  available evidence -  the metaphor loses pretty much all its punch.   :(
Bluffy is not very good with metaphors.
Are we there yet?

  • Zombies!
  • These violent delights have violent ends.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1691
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.
Just not continent sized?
I really should call your department head and tell him or her how badly you are behaving while posing as a credentialed professional scientist.

  • JonF
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1692
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.

That would have to be larger than the surface of the Earth.

Nobody is talking about placid shallow seas but you.

So where's your evidence for this freaking big layer? How did that quartzite form?
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1693
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.

Quartzite is a metamorphic rock, so you'll also have to explain how the formations in Utah and South Dakota was subjected to such heat and pressure in the time since it was deposited.
Or how there is any sedimentary rock at all with all the energy released by the continent scoot.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1694
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.
Even a really big shallow placid sea? Also lol "placid". Tell the captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald that the great lakes are small and placid.
Moron.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1695
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.

Ah, the davinitioning begins.

By the way, how do you know how big a placid shallow sea has to be before it could possibly deposit such a large sedimentary layer?
Beyond which lies the question as to why do you continue to refer to a "placid shallow sea"? Nobody has conjectured that. Shallow, yes, in comparison to the ocean, but placid?, nah. It was likely subject to the same storms as anywhere else. Wind storms especially, notable given much of the sand in those sandstorms appears to have been wind blown.

It also appears you've learned nothing of how such layers are formed. They are not formed by there simply being a big body of water that the sediment drops out of all over at once.  Indeed, that would not happen in a violent storm even if there was a large sediment load. Agitation is what keeps the sediments in suspension. Thought that would have sunk in with the discussions of flumes and rivers. They are formed by transgressions and recessions. A transgression that might be 1000 miles or more in length, but is depositing only from a band with a width of a few miles at any given moment. As the coastline moves in or out, the band of deposition moves in and out with it. And, no, it was not the same band for all those formations you named. The Tapeats formed from the west to the east. The sandstones in Eastern North America formed from the southeast to the northwest. Can;t be the parts of the same layer.

This is one of your problems, just like with the "placid shallow sea" and "billionsofdeadthings" and "floodlegends" you get stuck on these meme-like concepts. No matter how many times you are told they are not applicable or relevant or even real, you just can't let them go. Simple concepts for a simple mind.
Are we there yet?

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1696
C14 curves.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1697
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.

Speaking of playing dumb...

You keep bringing up this St. Simon Sandstone.

What is it?
I pointed out weeks ago that it appears to be some sort of brain fart  on the part of what appears to be your ONLY source on all this bullshit - some ICR apologist hack. It doesn't bother you that he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about?

I believe he may mean either the Mount Simon Sandstone of the Potsdam formation or the St Peter Sandstone we've discussed before. Then again, maybe it is just a brain fart. Bluffy is renowned for his mental flatulence.
Are we there yet?

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1698
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.
Just not continent sized?
I was under the impression that Bluffy's earlier claims were "continent spanning". I guess he's given that up.
Are we there yet?

Re: Testy Explains the Layers Which Include the Tonto Group
Reply #1699
"describe what in detail?"

Lol

The cheese that the moon is made of.

Which "continent sized sandstone layer" are you hoping to prove the extent of? Time period? Anything?

Or just your second law in action?
The one which is called "Tapeats" in the area of the Grand Canyon.  It's called Tintic Quartzite in central Utah,  in northeastern Utah it is the Lodore Quartzite; in Wyoming and Montana it is the Flathead Sandstone; in Colorado it is the Sawatch Sandstone; in South Dakota it is the Deadwood Quartzite; in the Midwest it is the St. Simon Sandstone; in the Ozarks it is the Lamotte Sandstone; and in northern New York state it is the Potsdam Sandstone.

That one.

Stop playing dumb.


Well that isn't continent sized. As per the evidence you presented earlier in the thread from Sloss, that marine transgression didn't cover the continent.

So what's your next move???

And maybe next time, just answer the question rather than being snarky. Seems the one who's playing dumb is you.
By "continent sized" I mean big. Damn big.  Freaking big. Bigger than anything that any placid shallow sea could possibly deposit.

Ah, the davinitioning begins.

By the way, how do you know how big a placid shallow sea has to be before it could possibly deposit such a large sedimentary layer?
Beyond which lies the question as to why do you continue to refer to a "placid shallow sea"? Nobody has conjectured that. Shallow, yes, in comparison to the ocean, but placid?, nah. It was likely subject to the same storms as anywhere else. Wind storms especially, notable given much of the sand in those sandstorms appears to have been wind blown.

It also appears you've learned nothing of how such layers are formed. They are not formed by there simply being a big body of water that the sediment drops out of all over at once.  Indeed, that would not happen in a violent storm even if there was a large sediment load. Agitation is what keeps the sediments in suspension. Thought that would have sunk in with the discussions of flumes and rivers. They are formed by transgressions and recessions. A transgression that might be 1000 miles or more in length, but is depositing only from a band with a width of a few miles at any given moment. As the coastline moves in or out, the band of deposition moves in and out with it. And, no, it was not the same band for all those formations you named. The Tapeats formed from the west to the east. The sandstones in Eastern North America formed from the southeast to the northwest. Can;t be the parts of the same layer.

This is one of your problems, just like with the "placid shallow sea" and "billionsofdeadthings" and "floodlegends" you get stuck on these meme-like concepts. No matter how many times you are told they are not applicable or relevant or even real, you just can't let them go. Simple concepts for a simple mind.
Dave has this cartoon version of things in his head where the flood laid down sediment over North America like a sheet of fondant icing on a cake, and no amount of reality is going to dissuade him. 
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins