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Topic: Star Wars spoilers and opinions (Read 1563 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Star Wars spoilers and opinions
I saw it.

Thoughts:
I didn't mind it, but ended up disappointed. It felt cluttered, like the movie was lacking a chance to breathe. I would have liked to have spent less time on random chases and a bit more on character development.

• I didn't like the Leia magic floating Jedi routine. It could have easily been pared back, freeing up a few minutes for other things. Also raises the question of where Leia's Jedi skills have been all this time. It was used as an opportunity for Emoboy to emote a bit, but that never went anywhere.
• The hot headed flyboy is an old cliche. However, it felt very heavy handed and made Poe Dameron come across as a bit of an idiot. I don't have a problem with useful idiots in film, but if Poe's an idiot, it makes it difficult to use him for any future stories that require a bit of tact or intelligence (like, perhaps, retrieving plans for star killer base)
• The entire sequence on the casino planet. This struck me as such a missed opportunity. At that stage we'd had the escape from the rebel base, the dreadnought battle, and the lightspeed chase, setting up the (very nice and tense) out-of-fuel chase sequence. Then we get a second chase/pratfall sequence on the casino planet, which simply bounces Finn and Rose from scenario to scenario without any chance for them to show any self determination. An alternative would be to treat that sequence as an opportunity for Finn and Rose to push themselves, and to solve the problem ( perhaps in a classic heist/subterfuge fashion). This would have provided a gap for the audience to change gears, and to give both those characters a chance to develop.

Another issue I have is that Star Wars has lots of characters, but rather than letting the characters evolve (as may be seen in the MCU), they are instead often moved around the galaxy, not by character motivation, but by script.eg: the sequence on the casino planet. I have a similar gripe with Hitchcock films, where characters are pushed around by script/director, without heed of any character driven motivation.

It felt like 'Pirates of the Caribbean' style film-making, with chase, chase, chase, but that doesn't work so well when a film takes itself a more seriously and the chases and action offer limited moments of lightheartedness. Films that relish their own ridiculousness can push things a bit more in terms of deus ex machina and the magic of circumstance.
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #1
Aside from the fun opening and spectacular final 45 minutes or so, your thoughts are dead on.

Production design wise, the look of the film felt more prequelly than the grimy realism that Force Awakens and Rogue One returned to the franchise.

I'm gonna have to see it again, but the 2nd act is very problematic. Like characters go here and there because the writers need them to so X can happen. And then there's some pretty weak pay offs like the Finn and Rose and Benicio Del Toro subplot.

All in all, I found Force Awakens much more entertaining and better at myth building.  Last Jedi is really a mixed bag.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #2
• I didn't like the Leia magic floating Jedi Poppins routine.
It was pretty bad.

  • Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:28:50 PM by Autonemesis

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #3
I more or less agree with the OP. There was way too much going on, and I think most of it didn't make sense. At one point in there were four plots going on simultaneously - Finn and Rose, Luke and Rey, Kylo and the First Order, Poe and Laura Dern. That doesn't work, especially in the middle of the movie.

There were too many callbacks and recycled elements that you could tell they were trying to use in a different way, but none of it was really effective.

Any type of plot involving spaceships chasing each other has been done a thousand times already and there was nothing new here.

The most interesting part was Rey's relationships with Kylo and with Luke. Unfortunately Rey didn't have much to say in this movie and we didn't learn much about her. Luke's lessons to her were muddled and if he changes his mind at the end of the movie, it undermines everything he says beforehand. That leaves Kylo as the star of this movie, which is worth something but not enough to make it great.

I have no idea why Laura Dern was in this movie. Extremely distracting.

The reason The Force Awakens was better than The Last Jedi is the same reason the original trilogy was good - Harrison Ford was in it. It's pretty clear now that he is at least 90% of the reason these movies were ever any good.




Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #4
Also, did they ever even explain how the tracking device got on the rebel ship?

  • ksen
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #5
Kylo Ren is way too much of a cringey edge lord.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #6
Why didn't Laura Dern just tell Poe what the plan was? What was the point in keeping it a secret from someone ostensibly high up command?

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #7
I laughed out loud at the ironing droids. Thought they had cut to a scene of Boba Fett-style spaceships landing on a pad. I think it was an intentional Easter egg.

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #8
Why didn't Laura Dern just tell Poe what the plan was? What was the point in keeping it a secret from someone ostensibly high up command?

Plot. Really, bad, plot. That's how they gave Finn and Rose a chance to play chasey, across a casino. Then, they get to screw up their mission, and as a result nearly wipe out the rebellion by telling DJ all the details about their alternative escape plan. .

The take home message from the film is that the majority of the rebel protagonists are complete dumbarses.
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #9
So, what I'm hearing is to get really stoned to watch it so the chase scenes will be awesome. Is 3d worth it in this one?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #10
So, what I'm hearing is to get really stoned to watch it so the chase scenes will be awesome. Is 3d worth it in this one?
Yes

  • Monad
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #11
Just seen it - well that was rather disappointing. I expected a lot more. The whole 'who is Lord Snoke?' thing just fizzled out, finding Luke went nowhere, as usual a bunch of set scenes based around trying to blow something up/disable something in search of a plot.

  • Monad
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #12
Why didn't Laura Dern just tell Poe what the plan was? What was the point in keeping it a secret from someone ostensibly high up command?

Because then they would have had to think up another way to waste half of the movie

  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #13
I thought it was pretty good, especially the second time

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #14
I've read the spoilers a few times. Seems like a lot happens in only four wikipedia paragraphs.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #15
God I'm looking forward to being back in a civilized country that doesn't dub all their films before release.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #16
Reading more commentary and thinking about the film some more, I think the larger issue of the Saga trilogy is that its basic narrative wasn't thought out beforehand. They're basically just winging it from film to film which is probably why Johnson basically trashed all of the Force Awakens' set ups. Of course this really goes back to JJ Abrams who's notorious for being a great set up man like he did with Lost but really lacks the execution and foresight like a true master Christopher Nolan has.

Essentially I feel like Abrams created some interesting set ups and mysteries in FA but really had no idea what to do with them and figured the rest of TPTB would figure it out as he (at the time) wouldn't be a part of the franchise anymore.

Disney fucked up this trilogy by rushing it out and relying too much on the brand and nostalgia. They better hope the Han Solo film isn't the complete clusterfuck it sounds like it's going to be and that Ep IX does something to make the latest Saga trilogy worth a shit.

I didn't hate Last Jedi by any stretch of the imagination but it mostly left me not giving a fuck about where this story goes. Fuck I still can't even really make sense of who the First Order, the Resistance and the Republic even really are. This whole new trilogy is just plain messy and is lacking any execution. But I guess that's the state of modern blockbuster franchise filmmaking.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #17
Because the story arcs in the OT were planned ahead, lol

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #18
Because the story arcs in the OT were planned ahead, lol
there was at least some story arc in place as A New Hope was basically only a third of one Lucas' long ass original drafts of "The Star Wars"

By the time A New Hope was a hit and the planning for the next two films began, Lucas, at least, had some modicum of a plan for the story of the next 2 films. The Prequels obviously knew where they were going with the story even if the execution sucked. But it's clear the latest trilogy has no idea where it's going after the Force Awakens. The reason Disney, Abrams et al can't answer the question of "what happens next?" isn't because they don't want to give anything away but because they can't. They literally have no idea what happens next.

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #19
IMO, the JJ Abrams, Kurtzman, Orci, combination are one of the worst things to happen to "Star xxxx" movies (though I note Kurtzman and Orci weren't involved in TFA, so perhaps it's all Abrams).

One thing of note about Abram's space films is that they all revolve around shrinking the universe down to the size where you can cross it (trans warp beaming, x wing rescue at kanata's, blowing up republic) in the timeframe of minutes. This takes away one of the most important features of those films where space and isolation can play a vital role.

My opinion is that the new Star xxxx is built on a rotten foundation due to a failure to understand the main things that made those series interesting in the first place. We need better character writing, more thoughtful world building, and less chase, chase, chase sequences.

The only film I'd rewatch from the last three Star Wars films is rogue one. Gareth Edwards at least understands scale and it is a clean story, with decently written characters that adds nicely to the original trilogy.
  • Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 03:48:51 PM by Martin.au
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #20
jeez whine whine whine whine whine

The problem with all ALL of these films is the same problem with the prequels. star wars fanboys have spent the last 20-30 years of their lives using their imaginations to expand the relatively limited world of the original trilogy into something dense and extensive, and these new films tromp all over it and don't replace it with a whole lot of anything of substance. There is no deeper vision in any of these newer films besides making cash moolah, so we get uninspired derivative crap. There's occasional cool new things but mostly it's just derivative crap, and that's because really Lucas ran out of material halfway through Return of the Jedi.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #21
Rogue One was enjoyable but I felt it's a wasted opportunity with worthless characters that don't really do anything. And it pretty much shits on A New Hope with the Vader/Leia stuff at the end.

I guess I was I hoping for a charismatic Dirty Dozen meets Mission: Impossible in a Galaxy Far Far Away.

Big Budget Hollywood filmmaking seems incapable these days of creating great characters or even cool characters. I was watching the Last Boy Scout with my family over Christmas and yeah it's not the greatest movie but goddamn those characters are sharp and fun to watch. Compared to Rogue One where I can't even name one cool thing what's her face did or one cool thing what's his face said. In fact, they seemed to have cut out any life at all out of Erso's character because all the cool kind of bad ass things she said in the trailer were recut out of the movie itself.

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #22
jeez whine whine whine whine whine

The problem with all ALL of these films is the same problem with the prequels. star wars fanboys have spent the last 20-30 years of their lives using their imaginations to expand the relatively limited world of the original trilogy into something dense and extensive, and these new films tromp all over it and don't replace it with a whole lot of anything of substance. There is no deeper vision in any of these newer films besides making cash moolah, so we get uninspired derivative crap. There's occasional cool new things but mostly it's just derivative crap, and that's because really Lucas ran out of material halfway through Return of the Jedi.

I don't actually care about the Star Wars universe as a whole. I'm more interested in the design of the films.
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #23
the films are designed to have immediate brand awareness and generate massive sales, same as the Marvel universe films. If you look at them as an artistic endeavor, you're missing the point.

Will see this movie because I owe it to Teeth age 9 but TBH Annihilation is the SF film I'm most excited about this year.

Re: Star Wars spoilers and opinions
Reply #24
Adam Driver is my high school best friend's brother in law