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Topic: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World) (Read 211264 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34000
Jesus Christ.  The context of "I know everything about his operation" was ... emergency shelter.  IOW ... "I have been through his entire operation and traversed every corner of his farm and spoken with him at length and there is not a shred of evidence that he has any such thing as emergency shelter."

Glad to have your clarification, Dave.
What's disturbing about you is why you can't figure out something so simple yourself.  Especially given the high opinion you have of yourself vs. your low opinion of me.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34001
And yes, you DO appear to have a Darwin-debased mind.

And while I'm sure I don't "know everything about Greg's operation" in a broader sense - I do know a lot about it.  More importantly, I learned the essential keys to his success.

I don't think so.
Of course you don't.  Because DaveHasToBeWrong.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34002
And yes, you DO appear to have a Darwin-debased mind.

And while I'm sure I don't "know everything about Greg's operation" in a broader sense - I do know a lot about it.  More importantly, I learned the essential keys to his success.

I don't think so.
Of course you don't.  Because DaveHasToBeWrong.

No.  You don't have to be wrong at all. 

What you do need to do is let go of DaveHasToBeRight.

You'll find it makes you less wrong.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34003
Jesus Christ.  The context of "I know everything about his operation" was ... emergency shelter.  IOW ... "I have been through his entire operation and traversed every corner of his farm and spoken with him at length and there is not a shred of evidence that he has any such thing as emergency shelter."

Glad to have your clarification, Dave.
What's disturbing about you is why you can't figure out something so simple yourself.  Especially given the high opinion you have of yourself vs. your low opinion of me.

I don't have a particularly high opinion of myself.  It's true that I have a very low opinion of you, but that's because you don't seem to meet common standards of knowledge, understanding, curiosity, humility or honesty.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34004
And yes, you DO appear to have a Darwin-debased mind.

And while I'm sure I don't "know everything about Greg's operation" in a broader sense - I do know a lot about it.  More importantly, I learned the essential keys to his success.

I don't think so.
Of course you don't.  Because DaveHasToBeWrong.

No.  You don't have to be wrong at all. 

What you do need to do is let go of DaveHasToBeRight.

You'll find it makes you less wrong.
I'll challenge you on this because I'm in the mood.  I could use dozens of examples but let's use this one.

You have stated that I do NOT understand the keys to Greg's success.

I have stated that I do.

How to determine who is correct?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34005
I'm in the mood to challenge you on why you lied about the "Caracas" refugees.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34006
And yes, you DO appear to have a Darwin-debased mind.

And while I'm sure I don't "know everything about Greg's operation" in a broader sense - I do know a lot about it.  More importantly, I learned the essential keys to his success.

I don't think so.
Of course you don't.  Because DaveHasToBeWrong.

No.  You don't have to be wrong at all. 

What you do need to do is let go of DaveHasToBeRight.

You'll find it makes you less wrong.
I'll challenge you on this because I'm in the mood.  I could use dozens of examples but let's use this one.

You have stated that I do NOT understand the keys to Greg's success.

I have stated that I do.

How to determine who is correct?

That is a very good question, Dave, and one I have been asking you for years.  You seem to have no clue as to how to evaluate which of two conclusions may be correct (or, as I would put it, less wrong).

How would you go about determining who is correct?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34007
Observation. Evidence. Sound Logic.

  • Martin.au
  • Thingyologist
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34008
I am going to determine diffusivity of this isotope species in air. My method will be "Observation. Evidence. Sound Logic."

How'd that work Dave? Think I'll get it published?
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • JonF
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34009
Observation. Evidence. Sound Logic.
Demonstrate.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34010
Observation. Evidence. Sound Logic.
Is that how you determined those refugees were fleeing Caracas?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34011
Observation. Evidence. Sound Logic.

OK, go on.  How would you answer the question you posed using those things?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34012
Well there's many aspects of Greg Judy's operation that I can pick but let's just pick the most important thing... the three basic principles of HMG... Bunch the animals into a tight group, keep them moving, and allow adequate rest after grazing.

Allan Savory has done the observation part for us although we can do our own observations as well. He has observed herbivores and perennials in nature and has noted that they are bunched together in much tighter groups than  for example cattle in most conventional domestic situations. He has observed that this creates an enormous impact on the perennial grasses. His next observation has been that these tight groups tend to stay on the move. Why? Well let's use our Sound Logic. If you were a grazing animal would you like to eat grass that have been soiled by feces and urine? No you wouldn't, and neither do they.  The next observation is that this natural tendency of herbivores to stay on the move gives the perennial grasses a chance to recover without being grazed for a fairly long period of time. Using our soundlogic again we reason that every Farmer in the world knows that applications of manure and urine make good fertilizer for grasses so immediately we know that this occurs also occurs with these grazing herbivore groups. How about evidence? Well there's much evidence available just from observing these things in nature but we can also run our own experiments and of course this has been done.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34013
Don't forget the big picture of what we are talking about here... I have claimed that I understand the keys to Greg Judy's success. You claim that I don't.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34014
So the most important keys to Greg Judy's success are the three basic principles of HMG...

Bunch. Move. Rest.

There are other keys to his success as well such as obtaining low-cost land leases and selecting cattle and sheep breeds that are well suited for his area and for all grass operations.

I understand all these keys but it didn't come easy. It took several years and lots of study plus a 6 month internship.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34015
Now I'd like to know why you think I do NOT understand the keys to Greg Judy's success.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34016
:popcorn:

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34017
I predict lots of squid ink...

3

2

1

  • Sea Star
  • Not an octohatter
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34018
Well there's many aspects of Greg Judy's operation that I can pick but let's just pick the most important thing... the three basic principles of HMG... Bunch the animals into a tight group, keep them moving, and allow adequate rest after grazing.

Allan Savory has done the observation part for us although we can do our own observations as well. He has observed herbivores and perennials in nature and has noted that they are bunched together in much tighter groups than  for example cattle in most conventional domestic situations. He has observed that this creates an enormous impact on the perennial grasses. His next observation has been that these tight groups tend to stay on the move. Why? Well let's use our Sound Logic. If you were a grazing animal would you like to eat grass that have been soiled by feces and urine? No you wouldn't, and neither do they.  The next observation is that this natural tendency of herbivores to stay on the move gives the perennial grasses a chance to recover without being grazed for a fairly long period of time. Using our soundlogic again we reason that every Farmer in the world knows that applications of manure and urine make good fertilizer for grasses so immediately we know that this occurs also occurs with these grazing herbivore groups. How about evidence? Well there's much evidenceavailable just from observing these things in nature but we can also run our own experiments and of course this has been done.
Dave, what is the evidence (data) to support the above bolded in your post? Thanks.
Also, a photo of Natalie?
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Today at 07:50:40 AM
Lol
Sea Star has been trolling me this whole time.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34019
So the most important keys to Greg Judy's success are the three basic principles of HMG...

Bunch. Move. Rest.

There are other keys to his success as well such as obtaining low-cost land leases and selecting cattle and sheep breeds that are well suited for his area and for all grass operations.

I understand all these keys but it didn't come easy. It took several years and lots of study plus a 6 month internship.

You have already forgotten the question which is was whether you have understood the keys to Judy's success.

Telling us what you THINK the keys are does not demonstrate that either they ARE the keys, or that you have understood them.

So let me attempt an answer to the question.

IF you have understood the keys to Judy's success THEN you should be able to reproduce that success on your own property.

So first of all you need to say how you are defining, and evaluating success.  That could be financial; it could be environmental, or ot could be something else.  So the first step is to define some measures.  Five-year financial figures for instance; biodiversity as measured in some way that can be compared across the two properties; average sequestered carbon per unit area; food calories per acre; protein calories per acre.  Choose your measure, or measures.

Then measure.  And compare.  IF you have understood Judy's keys to success, then your figures should be similar for those measures.

Right?  If yours are worse, then either you've missed some key to Judy's success that he is doing and you aren't, or you've misunderstood an actual key and your version of it doesn't work.

Simply telling us AGAIN that HMG is the key to success and that it has three bits to it and you are doing all three does nothing to tell us whether you are right or I am.

As you say - you need actual observations, evidence, and logic.  I have given you a hint of the logic.  Now go and make the observations and show how they are evidence for your claim.
  • Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 08:09:17 AM by Pingu
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34020
I predict lots of squid ink...

3

2

1

Yes indeed.  You are very good at producing squid ink.  However, it doesn't so much prevent you being seen, as prevent you yourself from seeing. 

I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34021
Well there's many aspects of Greg Judy's operation that I can pick but let's just pick the most important thing... the three basic principles of HMG... Bunch the animals into a tight group, keep them moving, and allow adequate rest after grazing.

Allan Savory has done the observation part for us although we can do our own observations as well. He has observed herbivores and perennials in nature and has noted that they are bunched together in much tighter groups than  for example cattle in most conventional domestic situations. He has observed that this creates an enormous impact on the perennial grasses. His next observation has been that these tight groups tend to stay on the move. Why? Well let's use our Sound Logic. If you were a grazing animal would you like to eat grass that have been soiled by feces and urine? No you wouldn't, and neither do they.  The next observation is that this natural tendency of herbivores to stay on the move gives the perennial grasses a chance to recover without being grazed for a fairly long period of time. Using our soundlogic again we reason that every Farmer in the world knows that applications of manure and urine make good fertilizer for grasses so immediately we know that this occurs also occurs with these grazing herbivore groups. How about evidence? Well there's much evidence available just from observing these things in nature but we can also run our own experiments and of course this has been done.

Yet again you mistake model for data.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34022
You are a complete idiot.

Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34023

  • fredbear
  • Militantly Confused
Re: Economics of "Saving Agriculture" (Thereby Saving the World)
Reply #34024
You are a complete idiot.
Quote from: Dave Hawkins
Why do you waste the bandwidth to basically say "nuh uh"? Why don't you just use this post to explain yourself?
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins