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  • Meh, I strolled over, read though, and found absolutely nothing of value at the "talk rational" forum. What a waste of time, space, and pixels.- utter rubbish.

Topic: Oldest Human Remains (Read 25351 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4025
Can anyone explain what Faid means by "washing up"?
Anybody?
Considering it was a reference to something you wrote, it shouldn't be this hard for you to figure it out. You aren't demonstrating much scientific aptitude here for someone who claims to be a scientist.

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4026
I am in fact a scientist and understand evolution better than most folks here. But not worth arguing. Just another silly slur from you folks.

Ok this has to be some kind of performance art.
I hope so. It's preferable to thinking this is what a person is actually like.

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4027
It seems that people still do not know the problem with the Omo I and Omo II fossils. Even though I earlier gave you the reference link. You should have appreciated it at the time since I am no longer spoon feeding you.

  • uncool
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4028
It seems that people then didn't trust your claims then, and still don't trust your claims now, since you've shown yourself incompetent long ago.

Self-proclaimed spoonfeeding doesn't change that.

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4029
It seems that people still do not know the problem with the Omo I and Omo II fossils. Even though I earlier gave you the reference link. You should have appreciated it at the time since I am no longer spoon feeding you.
Everyone knows the old reference link you gave (which you are understandably too afraid to give again) showed the state of the knowledge before the 2005 stratigraphic study Faid keeps rubbing your face in.

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4030
I am in fact a scientist and understand evolution better than most folks here. But not worth arguing. Just another silly slur from you folks.

Ok this has to be some kind of performance art.
I hope so. It's preferable to thinking this is what a person is actually like.
Dreaming of how reality should be instead of simply learning how it is is the basis of everything sucky does. Ditto for Bluffy.
sucky really is actually just like that. And proud of it too.
Are we there yet?

  • Faid
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4031
It seems that people still do not know the problem with the Omo I and Omo II fossils. Even though I earlier gave you the reference link. You should have appreciated it at the time since I am no longer spoon feeding you.
Everyone knows the old reference link you gave (which you are understandably too afraid to give again) showed the state of the knowledge before the 2005 stratigraphic study Faid keeps rubbing your face in.
It's really fascinating. It's almost as if doug actually thinks "people forget from page to page".

"Oh it's been two pages, I guess I can once again claim that Omo I could be misdated, I'm sure no one remembers the 2005 stratigraphical study by now. If people post it again, I'll just wait a few more pages until people have forgotten about it".

Weird.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4032
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.

  • Faid
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4033

As a sidenote:
The Omo I date calculation is more suspect due to the presence of the primitive Omo II with it. This implies that both were washed in together from different places. That is why the reference I gave earlier suggests that the Omo I and II may be from some other places. In which case we do not know their dating.
Bullshit. Already addressed multiple times:
The evidence supports the idea that the migration was from the Levant into Egypt.
::)

Wishful thinking is not evidence.
For Omo 1 to be an ancestor requires re-dating all the Nile sites and the Levant sites.
:facepalm:

Because, as we all know, all humans did was pass through the Nile region into the Levant, leaving Africa forever.

That's why the continent was unoccupied until the 18th century, when humans returned. ::)
Compare that with the idea that Omo 1 has been incorrectly dated.
I have to say, doug, you're making progress at last! No more intimation that Omo I was not AMH!
You have finally moved on to the Begrudging Acceptance Stage for that issue! Excellent!

Too bad your other "idea' is also BS, though. Once again:

The Oldest Homo Sapiens: Fossils Push Human Emergence Back To 195,000 Years Ago
Quote
"It is pretty conclusive," says Brown

But hey, I'm optimistic about this. I'm sure that, eventually, in a few years or so, you'll move on to the Begrudging Acceptance Stage on that as well.

Patience, champ. You'll get there.

The published material doesn't change, no matter how loud some uneducated nobody whines on the internet.
Quote
Other date calculations such as Misliya are not like that.
And you know this HOW?

Qafzeh has "the layers dated" as well.
Quote
As a further point the Omo I fossil is not a human.
More already refuted bullshit:
Quote
A 195,000 year old fossil from the Omo 1 site in Ethiopia shows the beginnings of the skull changes that we associate with modern people, including a rounded skull case and possibly a projecting chin.
So not a homo sapiens sapiens (anatomically modern human).
Nice try, Liar:
Quote
Undeniably modern in its anatomy, the specimen from the Omo basin[...]
Quote
In addition to the skull, the associated postcranial bones [...] display fully modern human anatomy.
Your OWN SOURCE, doug.

Ready to cry "uncle" yet?
Quote
The obvious modern traits of the Omo I skull include[...]


It may be that you don't understand this.

(j/k: You understand it just fine. You're just Pretending. As usual.)
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Faid
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4034
Also, speaking of "time travel machines"...
Quote
We generated 225 whole-genome sequences (225 at 8× depth, of which 8 were increased to 30×; Illumina HiSeq 2000) from six modern Northeast African populations (100 Egyptians and five Ethiopian populations each represented by 25 individuals). West Eurasian components were masked out, and the remaining African haplotypes were compared with a panel of sub-Saharan African and non-African genomes. We showed that masked Northeast African haplotypes overall were more similar to non-African haplotypes and more frequently present outside Africa than were any sets of haplotypes derived from a West African population. Furthermore, the masked Egyptian haplotypes showed these properties more markedly than the masked Ethiopian haplotypes, pointing to Egypt as the more likely gateway in the exodus to the rest of the world. Using five Ethiopian and three Egyptian high-coverage masked genomes and the multiple sequentially Markovian coalescent (MSMC) approach, we estimated the genetic split times of Egyptians and Ethiopians from non-African populations at 55,000 and 65,000 years ago, respectively, whereas that of West Africans was estimated to be 75,000 years ago. Both the haplotype and MSMC analyses thus suggest a predominant northern route out of Africa via Egypt.

The bolded part supports a migration from the Levant
Notice the next bolded part. Again this supports a migration from the Levant.
Note that as with all the articles the researchers are working within an Out of Africa theory. I am interested in the actual evidence and not their interpretations.
Notice the actual evidence. :rofl:

:rofl:
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4035
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4036
What "details" do you think the Out of Africa theory should give?
What details do any competing theories offer* ?

* in peer-reviewed publications, of course. Not some Dunning-Kruger crackpot on the internet.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4037
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4038
:parrot:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4039
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

No, it would not.
First off, you are assuming linearity in the finds, that's not necessarily the case and probably not the case.
Not everything has been rendered into fosssils or otherwise archeological finds. Probably 99% of everything that's occurred will never be known. It's perfectly possible there were migrations by humans out of NE Africa for a very long time. H erectus made it all the way to eastern Indonesia close to 1Mya. But those lineages pretty much died out, leaving, at best, minor introgressions into the modern human genome.
Secondly, you ignore or reinterpret any evidence that refutes your personal fantasy. Not very scientific. But then, you don't have any relevant scientific education, training and/or experience, you're just an internet crackpot nutjob crank.
Are we there yet?

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4040
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

It is hard for folks to acknowledge these simple facts. You begin immediately with the "yes but" excuses. It is hard for you to admit facts that are staring you in the face.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4041
What facts has anyone not "admitted" ?   :dunno:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4042
Well, Socrates hasn't admitted these facts...
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22335
Quote
Here we report the ages, determined by thermoluminescence dating, of fire-heated flint artefacts obtained from new excavations at the Middle Stone Age site of Jebel Irhoud, Morocco, which are directly associated with newly discovered remains of H. sapiens8. A weighted average age places these Middle Stone Age artefacts and fossils at 315 ± 34 thousand years ago.
So maybe that's what he's referring to? :dunno:

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4043
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

It is hard for folks to acknowledge these simple facts. You begin immediately with the "yes but" excuses. It is hard for you to admit facts that are staring you in the face.
The researchers in this field have never come to terms with the Levant fossils and sites. They just wave their hands and say something like:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
They never deal with how humans actually made it out of Africa to the Levant. They just say that it happened. But as we have seen from the dating of the Nile sites, that does not stand up.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4044
What "details" do you think the Out of Africa theory should give?
What details do any competing theories offer* ?

* in peer-reviewed publications, of course. Not some Dunning-Kruger crackpot on the internet.
Worth repeating.
Till it sinks in.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4045
What "details" do you think the Out of Africa theory should give?
What details do any competing theories offer* ?

* in peer-reviewed publications, of course. Not some Dunning-Kruger crackpot on the internet.
Worth repeating.
Till it sinks in.
It will never sink in, I tell you, NEVER!
Are we there yet?

  • socrates1
Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4046
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

It is hard for folks to acknowledge these simple facts. You begin immediately with the "yes but" excuses. It is hard for you to admit facts that are staring you in the face.
The researchers in this field have never come to terms with the Levant fossils and sites. They just wave their hands and say something like:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
They never deal with how humans actually made it out of Africa to the Levant. They just say that it happened. But as we have seen from the dating of the Nile sites, that does not stand up.
Well that is that. The Out of Africa theory does not stand up. You folks can continue your "yes but" excuses and insults.

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4047
I'll alert the presses.

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4048
Socrates you've developed 2 theories that would warrant Nobel prizes. Why are you so reluctant to write up your research and claim them??

Are you allergic to Nobel prizes or something?

Re: Oldest Human Remains
Reply #4049
There are sites along the Nile. Is there anything published that proposes that the line from Omo 1 went northward to those sites?


I have seen nothing published on this subject.
Mind you, there is this:

Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
Quote
Northern route
Some of the earliest remains of AMH anywhere outside of Africa, the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins, were found in the Levant (present-day Israel) and dated to 120 and 100-90 kya, respectively (Fig. 1).56,57 It has been suggested that these fossils represent an early exit of modern humans approximately 120 kya, traveling across the Sinai Peninsula to the Levant.58 The next human remains found in the region include the Manot1 cranium, which was dated to around 55 kya,59 demonstrating a considerable gap in the fossil record of AMH occupation in the Levant. This, in conjunction with climatic records, indicating a global glacial period 90 kya,60 has led some authors to suggest that if the first humans did exit early via the Levant they did not survive, and that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominins are the remnants of this failed exodus.58 Other authors emphasize the possibility that this group could have already left the Levant before the glacial period 90 kya.61 That said, the recent presentation of archeological material, primarily stone tools and assemblages dated to 100-80 kya, from an empty corner of the Arabian Peninsula suggests early settlements may have been widely distributed and that even if Skhul and Qafzeh do represent a failed exodus, it was broader and more complex than previously thought.62

In addition to the evidence from the archeological and climatic record, genetic studies have also suggested some support for a Northern route. A study of Y chromosome haplogroup distributions together with 10 microsatellite loci and 45 binary markers in different African and Near Eastern populations found that the Levant was the most supported route for the primary migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia.63 In a more recent paper, Pagani et al sequenced the genomes of 100 Egyptians and 125 individuals from five Ethiopian ethnic groups (Amhara, Oromo, Ethiopian Somali, Wolayta, and Gumuz).64 After attempting to mask West Eurasian genetic components inherited via recent non-African admixture within the last 4 kya, they showed that modern non-African haplotypes were more similar to Egyptian haplotypes than to Ethiopian haplotypes, thus suggesting that Egypt was the more likely route in the exodus out of Africa migration, assuming the efficacy of their masking procedure. However, as noted earlier, one limitation of such studies that analyze modern DNA is that extant populations may not be good representatives of past populations due to factors such as population replacement, migrations, admixture, and drift.
We saw earlier that the Nile sites are younger (closer to today) than the sites in the Levant.
So if the line led from Omo 1 to the Nile sites and then to the Levant it was by means of a time travel machine.

It may be that people did not understand this.
The Out of Africa gives no details about the migration into the Levant. Though it does say this:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
If they did give details they would document that the Nile sites were closer to today than the sites in the Levant. That would contradict the idea of an Out of Africa migration.

It is hard for folks to acknowledge these simple facts. You begin immediately with the "yes but" excuses. It is hard for you to admit facts that are staring you in the face.
The researchers in this field have never come to terms with the Levant fossils and sites. They just wave their hands and say something like:
Quote
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years ago using two different routes: through the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000-100,000 years ago)
They never deal with how humans actually made it out of Africa to the Levant. They just say that it happened. But as we have seen from the dating of the Nile sites, that does not stand up.
Well that is that. The Out of Africa theory does not stand up. You folks can continue your "yes but" excuses and insults.
Now if you could only convince anyone besides yourself...