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Topic: rebuilding the republican party: LOL! (Read 419 times) previous topic - next topic

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rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/does-america-want-a-third-party-or-is-it-just-david-brooks/
Quote
natesilver: Again, a lot of this is just that David Brooks had a party (the GWB-era GOP) that he once mostly agreed with and now he doesn't have one. Which is annoying for David Brooks but doesn't really provide much evidence either way in terms of broader public sentiment.
  • Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 03:59:25 AM by Brother Daniel
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #1
joke: DemEnter
broke: DemExit
woke: GOPEnter

  • linus
Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #2
It's David Brooks + retired/retiring GOP politicians.

Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #3
The EJ Dionne versus David Brooks thing they have weekly on npr tends to be them both agreeing on most things until Brooks eventually succumbs to at least one extremely dumb obligatory conservative take on a thing.

Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #4
I have heard him on the radio but I don't know if I've ever seen him on tv. Plus I've read a few of his columns. He seems like a capitalist of the moderately Hayek variety. That kinda makes his whole take on everything flawed in my opinion so I don't really pay much attention to him. Should I? Does he ever make intelligent points or are they basically cheerleading?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #5
he's been on the newshour opinion duo for years.  he is intelligent but has standard bush era republican views, except that he's a little more socially moderate.  

I don't want to punch him as much as I used to.  but I will always want to put him a little because he mocked al gore's proposals of cutting greenhouse gas emissions and using surplusses to pay down the national debt as "some kind of Vulcan utopia".  yes, he actually tacitly admitted the plans were both logical and good, and tried to handwave that into a bad thing.

I have no sympathy for republicans like him who are dismayed at what an idiocracy the gop has turned into, because they created the problem by encouraging stupidity for years.

Re: rebuilding the republican part: LOL!
Reply #6
The fact that David Brooks is paid for his opinions is a clear sign of civilizational decline.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #7
not as clear as just about anything we've seen in the last few years

  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #9
why are people pretending that conservatism wasn't always dumb and bad

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #10
because it wasn't always this dumb and this bad, and it felt intellectually lazy (at least to me) to categorically presume there was no merit to anything conservatives thought. 

to the extent conservatism has morphed into trumpism, that no longer feels intellectually lazy.  trumpism consists in large part of intellectual laziness.  that's like one of its principles.
  • Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 08:00:51 AM by el jefe

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #11
like, you don't have to "presume." it's not like people haven't studied this.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #12
well then I guess I'd say I don't think they were totally wrong about everything

  • Brother Daniel
  • Global Moderator
  • predisposed to antagonism
Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #13
well then I guess I'd say I don't think they were totally wrong about everything
OK, { things that conservatives are right about } is not an empty set.

But it's a subset of { things that conservatives agree with nearly everyone else about }.

I'd suggest that it doesn't intersect with { things that set conservatives apart }.

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #14
Standing Athwart History, Yelling "Well Maybe Conservatives Have A Reasonable Point...."

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #15
well then I guess I'd say I don't think they were totally wrong about everything
OK, { things that conservatives are right about } is not an empty set.

But it's a subset of { things that conservatives agree with nearly everyone else about }.

I'd suggest that it doesn't intersect with { things that set conservatives apart }.

Like a few years ago when they posted the list of Greatest Conservative Rock Songs and it was just a list of good songs that had nothing to do with conservatism.

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #16
My favorite conservative rock song is Born in the USA.

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #17
this is mine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ogibWCNKI

man i really miss this enlightened and eloquent conservatism, what a stirring tribute to #resistance hero george w bush

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #18
I guess I'm not familiar enough with the level of shitlordism in pre-20th century conservative ideology, but throughout the 20th century the "enlightened conservative thinkers" were always pretty transparently full of shit in defense of established hierarchies. Guys like Buckley get held up, but when you actually watch him in a discussion with anyone else, he's intellectually vacant. Quips and witty phrases and jokes, sure, but no real substance behind what he's saying (because what he was saying was usually morally indefensible!)

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #19
My favorite conservative rock song is Born in the USA.

I'm partial to the Teg Nugent masterpiece "Well Actually"

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #20
Sabotage on a downtown street
Police cars overturned
You can't do nothing to beat the heat
And if you don't, you'll get burned

Sleek women behind every door
Cost more than you got
You best be up if
You want some more
Cause if you don't
You'll be shot

Dog, dog, dog eat dog
Dog, dog, dog eat dog
Dog, dog, dog eat dog

Kamikaze from
The hundredth floor
Swan dive to the street
He couldn't handle
This madness no more
He craved that sweeter meat

Yeah, yeah, yeah
Dog, dog, dog eat dog
Dog, dog, dog eat dog
Dog, dog, dog eat dog

Nugent is an american peot.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #21
Since I started paying attention to politics (early 80s), the only thing the GOP has been right on are trite sayings that everyone would agree with. Most of their positions that they have are the same as Dems in that sense, but the GOP has the consistent habit of doing the opposite of those things that would actually change things the way they claim to want them changed.

They aren't the fiscally conservative party. That's the Dems. They aren't for the working class. That's the Dems too. They continue to bank on the fact that a good chunk of the electorate is too stupid to notice their actions haven't matched their rhetoric in at least 40 years.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #22
well then I guess I'd say I don't think they were totally wrong about everything
OK, { things that conservatives are right about } is not an empty set.

But it's a subset of { things that conservatives agree with nearly everyone else about }.

I'd suggest that it doesn't intersect with { things that set conservatives apart }.
I think there's a lot of overlap between {things old school conservatives were right about} and {things old school conservatives agreed with nearly everyone else about}, but I disagree that the first was entirely a subset of the second.

as a main example or body of examples, there are a number of points about economics where conservative positions were at least partial truths that were not recognized by liberals.  e.g., tax cuts probably really do boost growth.  they don't boost it enough to pay for themselves, and you sure as shit can't say that they automatically lead to the normatively best result (unless you take the vacuous libertarian position that cheats and defines less government as "best").  but they really do pay some dividend in growth, and conversely raising taxes typically carries a cost in lost growth (which of course doesn't necessarily mean it's the wrong move...).  and you have to take that into account in crafting policies.  ....  similarly, regulations impose costs where they are incident.  they can and should yield a net benefit to the public by correcting externalities and/or normative or ethical problems.  but that doesn't mean they always do yield a net benefit, in practice.  they are sometimes done clumsily, inefficiently, in ways that create perverse incentives, or in ways that really do impose a lot of needless paperwork and lawyering on affected businesses.  this doesn't mean you don't do it.  but it does mean when you're drafting the rules, you should look at them from the angle of whether they're likely to produce a net benefit given the costs they impose.  democrats and liberals, at least pre-clinton, didn't really get that.

lest anyone read too much into all that ^^, keep in mind I believe strongly in both a national public health care system and regulations stomping out carbon emissions.

a few miscellaneous areas where I think liberals/left/progressives/democrats tend to be wrong and dumb are 3 strikes laws, nuclear power, and the assault weapons ban.  3 strikes has exacerbated the big evil mass incarceration problem in conjunction with harsh sentencing guidelines and the big retarded war on the drugs.  however, if they were limited to violent crimes, I would say they were not only right but common sense.  if you have 10% of the criminals committing half the crimes (or whatever the statistic is), because that subset has high recidivism, it seems clear that you have some people who aren't going to change their ways, and, whatever you think the purpose of imprisonment is, the only sensible choice is to lock them up and throw away the key.  (again, I'm talking violent crimes in particular.)  ...  nuclear power really is clean power.  or at least the closest thing to it that will enable the first world to continue its decadent lifestyle, something they would sooner keep burning coal than agree to give up.  ...  the assault weapons ban is an understandable impulse given all these high profile mass shootings by guys with machine guns.  but:  1) homicides by assault weapon are actually relatively rare.  vast majority (~90%) of gun homicides are committed with handguns.  2) the available evidence actually shows no effect on gun homicides from the previous AWB.  and 3) gun makers simply engineered around the ban last time, and would do so again.  .....  far more sensible (and broadly popular) approaches for reducing gun homicides are universal background checks and cracking down on straw purchases.

there, now everyone can commence with biting my head off

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #23
Except the goal of late-stage modern democracy isn't authenticity. It is a combination of voter fatigue and brand awareness.

First, convince the part of the electorate that cares about policy that none of the parties actually give a shit and push them to vote third party or nothing at all. Throw up random third party candidates who have no actual solid policy and who are more about flashy anti-establishment catchphrases.

Then convince those who are still voting for major parties that who you vote for is a reflection of your cultural background, not policies. Voting republican isn't about voting for policies you like, because realistically you don't really care too much about policy. Voting republican is about representing your redneck culture. Same honestly applies to many of the hardcore Democrat fans too.

Make it more and more difficult for those who adhere to policy-based governance to actually govern, whether or not they're in power. This will either force them to give up, in which case you win, or they have to start trying to bypass normal checks and balances, which allows you to call them out for oppressive governance, also delivering you a win.

Then deregulate either directly or by making it impossible to enforce existing regulations. Allow big corporations to run rampant and fill your pockets with kickbacks. Repeat as necessary until your bank account has grown to your satisfaction.

Re: rebuilding the republican party: LOL!
Reply #24
well then I guess I'd say I don't think they were totally wrong about everything
OK, { things that conservatives are right about } is not an empty set.

But it's a subset of { things that conservatives agree with nearly everyone else about }.

I'd suggest that it doesn't intersect with { things that set conservatives apart }.
I think there's a lot of overlap between {things old school conservatives were right about} and {things old school conservatives agreed with nearly everyone else about}, but I disagree that the first was entirely a subset of the second.

as a main example or body of examples, there are a number of points about economics where conservative positions were at least partial truths that were not recognized by liberals.  e.g., tax cuts probably really do boost growth. 

p. sure keynes knew this