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Topic: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok. (Read 225 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • SkepticTank
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Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Ok say I live in DC, and I love the Washington Wizards and hate the Knicks (and all the dirty Jews that live in NYC).

Say that Russia decides to move it's embassy from DC to NYC. Why do I care? I'm not a Russian citizen, why do I give a fuck where some powerful foreign country puts it's embassies and consulates?



  • F X
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #1
It's complicated.  I would explain it, but it would be a lot of fucking work.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • uncool
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #2
Ok say I live in DC, and I love the Washington Wizards and hate the Knicks (and all the dirty Jews that live in NYC).

Say that Russia decides to move it's embassy from DC to NYC. Why do I care? I'm not a Russian citizen, why do I give a fuck where some powerful foreign country puts it's embassies and consulates?



Because the placement of consulates and embassies is an acknowledgement by the owner (the US) of the right of the recipient (Israel) to choose what happens in that space.

The Palestinians claim that Israel, and more specifically Jerusalem, belongs to them, and that they were kicked out, first by the British and then by the Israelis. The term to google is "nakba", if I remember correctly.

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #3
Ok say I live in DC, and I love the Washington Wizards and hate the Knicks (and all the dirty Jews that live in NYC).

Say that Russia decides to move it's embassy from DC to NYC. Why do I care? I'm not a Russian citizen, why do I give a fuck where some powerful foreign country puts it's embassies and consulates?




Jesus Christ, ST

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #4
That might be the worst analogy I've ever seen in my goddamn life.

  • meepmeep
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #5
that was really dumb

embassies are not the same as consulates. embassies go in a nation's capital city, and consulates go in other cities. moving the embassy to jerusalem is recognition of jerusalem as the capital. there was already a fucking consulate in jerusalem.

slightly less terrible analogy: i move to texas and take your house and say it's mine and we argue about it forever and you fucking hate my guts and want your house back and everyone agrees to say it doesn't belong to either of us as a compromise. then my powerful rich buddy who's been trying to support me without saying the house is mine is all like "yeah this is totally your house, meeps, because i'm a nutbag evangelical who thinks that you need to have this house for the world to rightfully come to an end via my religion's prophecy even though you're a dirty spic" and you're like wtf, i was really mad before when we were pretending it wasn't anyone's house but now you're being a real dbag.

  • SkepticTank
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #6
Nah, your analogy is way worse.

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #7
Here is a better analogy.  The "world" decides that a bit of land is now going to belong to a certain people but there are already people living there that have been there for centuries and Jesus Christ what is the point, this shit shouldn't need to be explained anymore

  • SkepticTank
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #8
Here is a better analogy.  The "world" decides that a bit of land is now going to belong to a certain people but there are already people living there that have been there for centuries and Jesus Christ what is the point, this shit shouldn't need to be explained anymore
Well if you're talking about Israel/Palestine as a whole, yeah I sorta get it. If you're talking about what city I put my embassy in, I'm missing some of the nuance.

  • meepmeep
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #9
moving the embassy to jerusalem is recognition of jerusalem as the capital.

 :eng101:

  • uncool
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #10
Here is a better analogy.  The "world" decides that a bit of land is now going to belong to a certain people but there are already people living there that have been there for centuries and Jesus Christ what is the point, this shit shouldn't need to be explained anymore
Well if you're talking about Israel/Palestine as a whole, yeah I sorta get it. If you're talking about what city I put my embassy in, I'm missing some of the nuance.
Jerusalem, and who gets to "own", or "administer", or "govern" Jerusalem, is a large piece of the conflict. By putting an embassy to Israel in Jerusalem, Trump is making a diplomatic statement that he acknowledges Israel's right to own/administer/govern Jerusalem - as something expected to be permanent, non-negotiable, and correct.

  • nesb
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #11
Quote
Donald Trump's decision to "recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the state of Israel" right now is a mistake. The possibility of recognizing part of Jerusalem as Israel's capital was a major point of leverage that the United States could have used to help prod Israelis and Palestinians toward a final resolution of the conflict. Instead, with little understanding of negotiations, President Trump traded that bargaining chip for nothing in return.

Moreover, Trump made no distinction between the eastern and western parts of Jerusalem. He offered no recognition of the reality that Jerusalem is home to two peoples and that someday it may need to serve as the capital for two states, Israel and Palestine. Jerusalem today is a divided city, with Palestinians in east Jerusalem living under Israeli occupation and experiencing cultural, economic and political inequality. The president seems to have put U.S. weight behind Israeli settlements, land expropriation and occupation.
http://www.courant.com/opinion/op-ed/hc-op-pressman-trump-jerusalem-mistake-1210-20171208-story.html

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #12
In the West Pale of Settlement born and raised, in the shtetl is where I spent most of my days...

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #13
Israel is an increasingly fascistic apartheid religious state, op.

  • el jefe
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #14
Here is a better analogy.  The "world" decides that a bit of land is now going to belong to a certain people but there are already people living there that have been there for centuries and Jesus Christ what is the point, this shit shouldn't need to be explained anymore
Well if you're talking about Israel/Palestine as a whole, yeah I sorta get it. If you're talking about what city I put my embassy in, I'm missing some of the nuance.
it's an implied recognition that jerusalem belongs to israel.  east jerusalem is disputed territory, where the Israeli elbowing-out of palestinians has been particularly aggressive.  now, the new embassy location will be in west jerusalem (eta: which, iirc, most people recognize as israeli).  however, coupled with israel's insistence that jerusalem be undivided (under their control), it amounts to us saying jerusalem is theirs.
  • Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 09:07:01 AM by el jefe

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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #15
Everything with the jews is a clusterfuck. It's well documented. Been that way since the late Bronze Age.
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

  • uncool
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #16
Everything with the jews is a clusterfuck. It's well documented.
By the Jews themselves. "In every generation..."

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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #17
Everything with the jews is a clusterfuck. It's well documented.
By the Jews themselves. "In every generation..."

It's a centrifugal clusterfuck.
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #18
Ahh Religion.

I kill you. You kill me. We all go to heaven.

Religion.

  • el jefe
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Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #19
"but after this, it's smooth sailing for the jews.  right?"

"ehh...  more or less."

  • Faid
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #20
Everything with the jews is a clusterfuck. It's well documented.
By the Jews themselves. "In every generation..."

It's a centrifugal clusterfuck.
To be fair, the imperial powers of the time bear a great deal of responsibility for the more recent historical clusterfucks in the region.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Faid
Re: Someone please explain Israel to me. Not really Teeth callout, but ok.
Reply #21
Ahh Religion.

I kill you. You kill me. We all go to heaven.

Religion.
You know, it really doesn't have to be that way. I was born in a city where christians, muslims and jews had lived together for centuries.
Religion seems to be the most reliable way to induce tensions and strife, when social, political or economical reasons demand it.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.