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  • TalkRational: i guess the only reason there aren't already IRA style murals of PZ and the struggle is that none of these people ever go outside.

Topic: Rebuilding the Democrat Party (Read 13787 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1350


Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1352
"surely all of these Trump voters will vote for me now that I voted for his CIA nominee!"

what is the political calculus behind this? what voters are they chasing? do they have zero concern about voters they may lose with votes like these?

or is this a ~principled~ affirmation of the need for more women torturers?


eta: lol missed that Warner said Yes too. lmao democrats, lmao

also looks like the damn broke


  • uncool
Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1353
"surely all of these Trump voters will vote for me now that I voted for his CIA nominee!"

what is the political calculus behind this? what voters are they chasing? do they have zero concern about voters they may lose with votes like these?

or is this a ~principled~ affirmation of the need for more women torturers?


eta: lol missed that Warner said Yes too. lmao democrats, lmao
My completely uneducated guess: they're going for the "We're the sane party, trying to make things still work despite Trump" narrative. Which is why they're letting judges through with little resistance, and why Haspel can get a nod - she's cut exactly from the CIA mold, and opposing her means taking a radical position.

Not an unwarranted position, but one that could convince voters "They're just opposing her to stick it to Trump, not for any policy purpose!"

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1354
another possible theory: https://theintercept.com/2018/05/08/will-democrats-unite-to-block-trumps-torturer-gina-haspel-as-cia-chief-if-not-what-do-they-resist/

notable for this aspect of it

Quote
The ruse Democrats typically use to accomplish these dirty deeds is quite ingenious: The defectors change so that no one member bears the blame for enabling right-wing measures, while the party itself is able to claim that a majority opposed the extremism. In 2010 -- as the Bush-era tactic of Democratic defections to the GOP continued under Barack Obama -- I referred to this tactic as "Villain Rotation" and described it this way:

Quote
The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation.  They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it.  One minute, it's Jay Rockefeller as the Prime Villain leading the way in protecting Bush surveillance programs and demanding telecom immunity; the next minute, it's Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer joining hands and "breaking with their party" to ensure Michael Mukasey's confirmation as Attorney General; then it's Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion; then it's Blanche Lincoln and Jim Webb joining with Lindsey Graham to support the de-funding of civilian trials for Terrorists; and now that they can't blame Lieberman or Ben Nelson any longer on health care (since they don't need 60 votes), Jay Rockefeller voluntarily returns to the Villain Role, stepping up to put an end to the pretend-movement among Senate Democrats to enact the public option via reconciliation.

If Haspel is confirmed, it will be because a certain number of Democratic senators join with the GOP caucus to support her, while allowing the Democratic Party to claim it tried to stop her by pointing to a majority of futile Democratic votes against her. That's why the record of the Democratic Party over the last 17 years -- providing whatever amount of support is needed for GOP war on terror policies -- makes it difficult to believe that Democrats will unite to kill her nomination.

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1355


thanks, chuck, for keeping an eye on trump to make sure he stays belligerent as fuck

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1356


kinda hard to avoid the "republicans lite" label when they seem to keep prioritizing "moderate" republicans

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1357
That guy doesn't actually seem all that bad, other than his comments on securing the border.

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1358
his rejection of paid-sick-leave law because Business seems pretty shitty?

this should also be automatically disqualifying:

Quote
Kopser, who has expressed his admiration for Ronald Reagan

Democrats are leaning pretty heavily on Ex-Vet Businesspeople again, which makes it more likely we get a big wave of Hope and Change that's immediately crushed by having a ton of squishy centrist and even center-right members in the coalition. Nothing great gets accomplished, people get disillusioned again, and reactionary politics comes roaring back just in time for the next Presidential election, oh and setting districts after the census yet again!

OTOH thanks to our particularly shitty political structure, it's hard to map out a majority Dem Congress that doesn't include a lot of shitty Dems! Yay America and your deeply undemocratic institutions!

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1359
his rejection of paid-sick-leave law because Business seems pretty shitty?


Did we read the same article?

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1360
whoops that's what I get for skimming it!

still though, praise for Reagan

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1361
I praise your apology.

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1362
Maybe this article belongs here more:

America's Version of Capitalism Is Incompatible With Democracy
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/americas-brand-of-capitalism-is-incompatible-with-democracy.html

Quote
But there are real stakes to that dispute. Beyond the aforementioned implications for how the anti-Trump opposition should be organized, the goal of preserving norms, and that of redistributing economic power, can -- and, if Democrats ever regain power, will -- come into conflict.

Let's say Chuck Schumer becomes Senate Majority Leader next year. If restoring norms is the paramount objective, then he will have to implore his caucus to confirm any conventionally qualified judicial nominees that the president puts forward; if combating runaway corporate power is the first priority, however, he'll need to have those nominations killed in committee, to keep seats open for future, pro-labor judges. Similarly, if Democrats secure full control in 2020 (or 2024, or 2028), abolishing the filibuster will almost certainly be a prerequisite for any major redistributive reform. And if Trump is able to appoint multiple Supreme Court justices -- and a "neo-Lochner era" commences, with the court's far-right majority routinely vetoing landmark progressive legislation (as it came within one vote of doing to the Affordable Care Act) -- then it will be very important for progressives to know whether norm-erosion or economic inequality is the more fundamental threat to their democracy.

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1363
Maybe this article belongs here more:

America's Version of Capitalism Is Incompatible With Democracy
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/americas-brand-of-capitalism-is-incompatible-with-democracy.html

Quote
But there are real stakes to that dispute. Beyond the aforementioned implications for how the anti-Trump opposition should be organized, the goal of preserving norms, and that of redistributing economic power, can -- and, if Democrats ever regain power, will -- come into conflict.

Let's say Chuck Schumer becomes Senate Majority Leader next year. If restoring norms is the paramount objective, then he will have to implore his caucus to confirm any conventionally qualified judicial nominees that the president puts forward; if combating runaway corporate power is the first priority, however, he'll need to have those nominations killed in committee, to keep seats open for future, pro-labor judges. Similarly, if Democrats secure full control in 2020 (or 2024, or 2028), abolishing the filibuster will almost certainly be a prerequisite for any major redistributive reform. And if Trump is able to appoint multiple Supreme Court justices -- and a "neo-Lochner era" commences, with the court's far-right majority routinely vetoing landmark progressive legislation (as it came within one vote of doing to the Affordable Care Act) -- then it will be very important for progressives to know whether norm-erosion or economic inequality is the more fundamental threat to their democracy.
that's very well put.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1364
actually every version of capitalism is incompatible with democracy


  • ravenscape
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Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1366
The last couple weeks have been particularly depressing.

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1367
I dunno a lot of people bitch about gas prices

But lol the Dems are controlled opposition

Re: Rebuilding the Democrat Party
Reply #1368
I dunno a lot of people bitch about gas prices

this is like, when the death star is revving up to laser your planet, complaining that its exhaust port system doesn't meet EPA standards