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Topic: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene (Read 1873 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • F X
  • The one and only
Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Not that facts will matter, especially not from some college course on the issue.
Typical idiot response, no source for graphic.  Not that the facts are going to make any difference in this matter.
Pretty ironic, in light of bullshit like:
Quote
The Altithermal was 1 or 2 degrees Celsius warmer than current temps, with sea levels 3 meters higher.
What's your source for these claims?

We've been through this before.
No, no we have not, or I would have already provided the scientific source for the information.

Quote
By 5000 to 3000 BC average global temperatures reached their maximum level during the Holocene and were 1 to 2 degrees Celsius warmer than they are today. Climatologists call this period either the Climatic Optimum or the Holocene Optimum.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html

Quote
From 3000 to 2000 BC a cooling trend occurred. This cooling caused large drops in sea level and the emergence of many islands (Bahamas) and coastal areas that are still above sea level today.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
It was certainly not a  sea level 3 meters higher than current levels.

Quote
A short warming trend took place from 2000 to 1500 BC, followed once again by colder conditions. Colder temperatures from 1500 - 750 BC caused renewed ice growth in continental glaciers and alpine glaciers, and a sea level drop of between 2 to 3 meters below present day levels.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html

The challenge is still on the table:
What's your support for your claim that global sea levels were 3 m higher during the Holocene maximum.
Something beyond unlabeled graphs.

:popcorn:



Of course an actual educational source will hardly matter (and the teacher certainly is no denier of climate change)

The story will just change, somehow VoxRat will just continue on (with the agreement of his idiot ass clown buddies) and it simply will not make any difference at all.

Such is the political nature of the science these days.

  • Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 06:44:27 PM by F X
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #1
The challenge is still on the table:
What's your support for your claim that global sea levels were 3 m higher during the Holocene maximum.

:popcorn:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #2

Quote
From 3000 to 2000 BC a cooling trend occurred. This cooling caused large drops in sea level and the emergence of many islands (Bahamas) and coastal areas that are still above sea level today.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
It was certainly not a  sea level 3 meters higher than current levels.

Quote
A short warming trend took place from 2000 to 1500 BC, followed once again by colder conditions. Colder temperatures from 1500 - 750 BC caused renewed ice growth in continental glaciers and alpine glaciers, and a sea level drop of between 2 to 3 meters below present day levels.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
:hmm:  i'm confused
  • Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 07:31:18 PM by Testy Calibrate
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • MikeS
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #3
There's agreement on the number "3".

Beyond that ....  :dunno:

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #4
:hmm:  i'm confused
Science can be hard.  If you don't actually know much about something, as in this case, the Holocene marine transgression, which is why I suggested you look it up in an encyclopedia.  VoxRat represents the idiocy of the current alarmist fuckhead, who decides in advance that he knows what happened, and since no amount of evidence can sway a true believer. It's an exercise in futility, but almost always amusing to watch.

Like a good religious follower, he wants to reverse all the ways science works, and declares an xkcd comic the one truth, and all the scientific data, papers and the entire history of geology and oceanography must be wrong, be cause of reasons.

It's an example of the real skull fucking that alarmists engage in, because facts and reason threaten their beliefs.  I mean, even a source from skepticalscience, the goddamn bible of the true believer, didn't phase him at all.  Like any religious nutjob, something factual like the raised beaches worldwide that show with out any doubt that sea level was around 3 meters higher, for a long time (it's how the beaches formed), just doesn't get through his wall of denial.

He just repeats his same idiot claim (that there is no evidence), so it's a tar baby in essence, the more you try to educate a tar baby, the worse you get stuck in it's sticky covering of ignorance and denial.

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #5
The 3 meter higher sea levels (for areas that are tectonicly stable only of course) is a well known event, it's called the Holocene highstand, the oceans rose no higher, and then they fell, with local variations of course, but generally speaking, worldwide the sea level fell after the highstand.

Quote
The fluctuating and rapid nature of sea level
change is further illustrated by the fact that sea
level continued to rise after 6.07 ka BP and
reached the Holocene highstand by 4.2 ka BP
(Fig. 26), submerging low coastal plains and
deltas (e.g., the Chao Phraya delta in Thailand
and Mekong delta in Vietnam) and then after
4.2 ka BP, sea level fell gradually to return to
present-day level about 1000 years ago
(Hanebuth, et al., 2000).
http://www.biology.sc.chula.ac.th/TNH/archives/VorisSupplement.pdf

This will not matter to a VoxRat, because somehow he knows it's not true. So no amount of evidence will matter.  In fact, the more evidence you provide, the stronger his belief becomes.  He actually thinks it's all bullshit, and we have gone over all this before, both of which are simply false, but it won't matter to him.

Just like a religion.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #6
The 3 meter higher sea levels (for areas that are tectonicly stable only of course) is a well known event,
No. It's not. That's the assertion you keep making, I keep requesting you support, and you keep failing to support.
Quote
it's called the Holocene highstand, the oceans rose no higher, and then they fell, with local variations of course, but generally speaking, worldwide the sea level fell after the high stand.

Quote
The fluctuating and rapid nature of sea level
change is further illustrated by the fact that sea
level continued to rise after 6.07 ka BP and
reached the Holocene highstand by 4.2 ka BP
(Fig. 26), submerging low coastal plains and
deltas (e.g., the Chao Phraya delta in Thailand
and Mekong delta in Vietnam) and then after
4.2 ka BP, sea level fell gradually to return to
present-day level about 1000 years ago
(Hanebuth, et al., 2000).
http://www.biology.sc.chula.ac.th/TNH/archives/VorisSupplement.pdf

This will not matter to a VoxRat, because somehow he knows it's not true. So no amount of evidence will matter.  In fact, the more evidence you provide, the stronger his belief becomes.
::)

I don't have any reason to think any of that is untrue.

I have repeatedly asked you to support one specific claim that you have repeatedly made, and repeatedly failed to support.
Quote
What's your support for your claim that global sea levels  were 3 m higher during the Holocene maximum?
Instead, you keep throwing out these unrelated bits you google up, seasoned with your tired ad homs.
  • Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 06:40:34 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #7
He just repeats his same idiot claim (that there is no evidence), so it's a tar baby in essence, the more you try to educate a tar baby, the worse you get stuck in it's sticky covering of ignorance and denial.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #8
In the idiocy of the VoxRat Universe, the well known scientific fact of the Holocene highstand becomes "your claim" and unless he is spoonfed evidence he won't believe it.  Except obviously no amount of evidence is going to matter.

It's a goddamn laugh riot.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #9
Now don't get me wrong, since I've been poking VoxRat with a pointy stick for seven years now, obviously I get a certain enjoyment out of it all.

Does that make me a bad person?

That I actually laugh at tormenting a true believer?
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #10
Quote any place I ever said that there was no Holocene highstand.

See that?
You can't.

One. More. Time.
The specific claim you keep repeating, and have failed to defend is that the Global Sea Level was 3 meters higher than the current level.

Are you really too stupid to get this, or are you just trolling?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #11
Since there are literally thousands of papers about the matter, the VoxRat tactic of simple denial is very much like a religious person arguing there is no evidence for evolution.
Quote
Sea level indicators of the Holocene highstand occur in this sector, as well as along the fringes of the Godavari delta further north. The Holocene highstand reached nearly 3 m above LTL at 7.3 ka, remained stable for approximately 1.7 kyr and was followed by a relative sea level fall.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322700000281

The only thing I know for sure is that he will never, ever, not even a little bit, admit he was wrong.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #12
Y'know, really FX's blithering should be split out to the at-science board, since it has nothing to do with real science.
Yeah, and you are an idiot.  Like the fuckhead who moved the topic, you are ignorant about actual science in this matter, which is fucking priceless.

It's like when you hear "temperatures for the polar regions during the altithermal were 4 to 8 degrees C higher than present", and your response is "yeah, but not globally.  Globally it wasn't warmer."

Because that's the sort of idiocy that passes as intelligence these days.

Like poor VoxRat, who reads "Sea level was 3 meters higher during the Holocene optimum" and says "not globally, it wasn't a global sea level rise".  And of course he won't ever provide any evidence for his claim.

It's a clown circus, and the lunatics are running the asylum.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #13
Quote
By 5000 to 3000 BC average global temperatures reached their maximum level during the Holocene and were 1 to 2 degrees Celsius warmer than they are today. Climatologists call this period either the Climatic Optimum or the Holocene Optimum.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
Still no support for the 3 meters higher than today global sea level thing.
But keep posting your vituperations against your strawman opponents.
(No one will fail to notice that the positions you impute to me are just as made up as the 3 meters thing.)
See?  In the VoxRat Universe, even when the global temperature was higher, the sea level wasn't actually higher, not "globally".  It's a strange world where even with the climate much warmer than current conditions, the sea level couldn't have been higher.  Not globally.

And even though it cooled for thousands of years after the Altithermal. sea level didn't change much at all. 

This is the bizzaro world of the climate alarmists.  It's quite special.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #14
Since there are literally thousands of papers about the matter, the VoxRat tactic of simple denial is very much like a religious person arguing there is no evidence for evolution.
Quote
Sea level indicators of the Holocene highstand occur in this sector, as well as along the fringes of the Godavari delta further north. The Holocene highstand reached nearly 3 m above LTL at 7.3 ka, remained stable for approximately 1.7 kyr and was followed by a relative sea level fall.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322700000281

The only thing I know for sure is that he will never, ever, not even a little bit, admit he was wrong.
Wrong about what?
Quote something I wrote that you've proved wrong.

See that?
You can't.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #15
IF it were "widely known" that global sea levels were 3 meters higher than today's levels, this graph would not look the way it does:



Like poor VoxRat, who reads "Sea level was 3 meters higher during the Holocene optimum" and says "not globally, it wasn't a global sea level rise".  And of course he won't ever provide any evidence for his claim.
See that graph?
There's my evidence for my "claim". 
(Which isn't actually a "claim", it's just skepticism about your claim.
Skepticism more than justified by your ongoing failure to support it.)
  • Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 08:06:15 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #16
It's like when you hear "temperatures for the polar regions during the altithermal were 4 to 8 degrees C higher than present", and your response is "yeah, but not globally.  Globally it wasn't warmer."

Because that's the sort of idiocy that passes as intelligence these days.
Why is that "idiocy"?
What's "idiotic" about it? :dunno:

Quote
In summary, the mid-Holocene, roughly 6,000 years ago, was generally warmer than today, but only in summer and only in the northern hemisphere.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/holocene.html
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #17
Whether eustatic sea-level rise through the Holocene has been punctuated or continuous has remained controversial for almost two decades.
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/38/9/803.abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GC005272/abstract

The fight over the raised beaches worldwide has been going on for much longer.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #18
It's like when you hear "temperatures for the polar regions during the altithermal were 4 to 8 degrees C higher than present", and your response is "yeah, but not globally.  Globally it wasn't warmer."

Because that's the sort of idiocy that passes as intelligence these days.
Why is that "idiocy"?
What's "idiotic" about it? :dunno:
If I had even a hope that you could learn, I would explain it.

But cmon, we all know nothing is ever going to change your mind, not even a little bit.  Especially not factual scientific information.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #19
This is like the "it snows more because it's warmer" idiocy.  You never learned a single thing, in fact the more evidence the more you dug in your heels.

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #20
It's like when you hear "temperatures for the polar regions during the altithermal were 4 to 8 degrees C higher than present", and your response is "yeah, but not globally.  Globally it wasn't warmer."

Because that's the sort of idiocy that passes as intelligence these days.
Why is that "idiocy"?
What's "idiotic" about it? :dunno:
If I had even a hope that you could learn, I would explain it.
Troll on, trolling troll. Troll on!
If you dismiss someone's statement as "idiocy" , then beg off explaining why it's "idiocy", your bluff has been called.
You folded.

NOAA clearly disagrees with you.
It's not between F_X and VoxRat, it's between F_X and NOAA.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #21
Nope.  The Encyclopedia of World Climatology does an excellent job of explaining the evidence and why we know that there was a Holocene climatic optimum, (Altithermal), why it was global, why we know there was a highstand, globally, and why we know there was global cooling and lowering sea levels, all of which you would know if you bothered to crack a book.

Getting stuck in your tar baby trolling isn't happening, no matter how much you beg.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #22
< still no support >
Why don't you fuck off until you can come up with the actual evidence, rather than asserting that it exists.
Somewhere.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #23
Harding 1982 says during the Altithermal global temps were 1-3 C above today, but I use the more conservative 1-2 degrees. That it was vastly different by climate zones is the real matter, because while the tropics were not much different, the polar regions were vastly different, as was the rainfall patterns and pressure gradients.

It was and is actual global climate change, but idiots like xkcd want it to be not much of a thing, because the idiots have an agenda, and understanding climate change isn't it.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Something about the timing and significance of four named periods within the Holocene
Reply #24
Morons and idiots will try and waste your time, rather than doing any work themselves, it's a hallmark of a troll or a true idiot online.

Instead of bothering to understand the Hypsithermal period, and why we knpow it happened, and what it was like, they want "you" to do all the work.

It's a fools game to respond to them. 

I should probably put down the pointy stick.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭