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Topic: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold (Read 2002 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #25
3 is a straight up lie.

[/thread]
Really?  Tell me why.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #26
You are welcome, Dave.
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Sun Jan 14 2018 19:59:03 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)
you suck at truth detection. (And spelling)

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #27

  • Fenrir
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #28
3 is a straight up lie.

[/thread]
Really?  Tell me why.

Why? You haven't paid the slightest attention the thousands of other times people have told you why.
It's what plants crave.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #29
3) MOST IMPORTANT POINT SO FAR ... For 200 years, it has been believed WITHOUT EXPERIMENTAL SUPPORT ... that layers which are higher up in the geologic column are OLDER YOUNGER. 
Wrong.
There is plenty of experimental support for that.
Both in  the fossil record and in radiochronometry.


Quote
Now the reason that Point #3 is so important is because it has now been shown by FLUME EXPERIMENTS that layers such as the Tonto Group which are composed of limestone at the top, mudstone below that, and sandstone at the bottom FORM AT THE SAME TIME ... ALL AT ONCE ... IN MOVING WATER. 
Wrong. The layers in the Tonto group are planes, that extend for miles and miles in two dimensions. Flume layers do not look like that.


Quote
Now what I don't know is the answer to the question "is it even possible at all for layers like the Tonto Group to form in STILL WATER?"
And until you do, you got nuthin'.
Quote
  I don't believe that it is
The "I don't believe" of some nobody with zero education, experience or credibility in the field, and with a thoroughly documented commitment to his Sunday school dogma, is worth less than nothing.
Quote
but I have not seen Berthault address that specific question in the videos.
There's a reason for that. See if you can figure out what it is.

Quote
So to summarize what I hope you will learn from this post ...

LAYERS SUCH AS THOSE IN THE TONTO GROUP FORM IN THE LABORATORY CONTEMPORANEOUSLY IN MOVING WATER, THUS VIOLATING THE RULE OF "LOWER = OLDER"
That rule never applied to laboratory flume experiments.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #30
Quote
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Today at 02:21:05 AM
3) MOST IMPORTANT POINT SO FAR ... For 200 years, it has been believed WITHOUT EXPERIMENTAL SUPPORT ... that layers which are higher up in the geologic column are OLDER YOUNGER.
Wrong.
There is plenty of experimental support for that.
Both in  the fossil record and in radiochronometry.

OK Excuse me.

Let me define "experimental"

What I mean is ... experiments IN A LABORATORY confirming the hypothesis that layered groups such as the Tonto Group (fine on top, less fine below and coarse at bottom, with distinct bedding planes) CAN INDEED FORM in still water.  I'm not aware of any experiments like this?  Are you?  Link?

We DO have laboratory experiments confirming the hypothesis that these types of groups DO FORM in moving water.


Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #31
To set up his experiments, Berthault took ACTUAL SEDIMENTARY ROCKS similar to the fine/medium/coarse stuff we find in the Tonto Group ... and GROUND THEM UP so that he had a mixture of fine/medium/coarse particles in a vessel ... then he used this ground up stuff in his experiments.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #32
Watch as I construct a cow from this Hamburger!
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Sun Jan 14 2018 19:59:03 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)
you suck at truth detection. (And spelling)

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #33
Quote
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Today at 02:21:05 AM
3) MOST IMPORTANT POINT SO FAR ... For 200 years, it has been believed WITHOUT EXPERIMENTAL SUPPORT ... that layers which are higher up in the geologic column are OLDER YOUNGER.
Wrong.
There is plenty of experimental support for that.
Both in  the fossil record and in radiochronometry.

OK Excuse me.

Let me define "experimental"

What I mean is ... experiments IN A LABORATORY confirming the hypothesis that layered groups such as the Tonto Group (fine on top, less fine below and coarse at bottom, with distinct bedding planes) CAN INDEED FORM in still water.  I'm not aware of any experiments like this?  Are you?  Link?
I have performed these "experiments" myself in the laboratory, for instance in the course of washing sephadex beads. Or letting mixtures of blood cells and bacteria settle. It is so common an experience, I doubt it will be possible to find published studies on it, any more than there will be published studies on the fact that things fall when you drop them.

Quote
We DO have laboratory experiments confirming the hypothesis that these types of groups DO FORM in moving water.
Only you have cherry-picked the properties of "these types of groups" that match the laminae in Kälksjön, the Tonto group, or any other relevant geological formation.

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #34
You have, have you?

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #35
I propose some Youtube science ... you vs. me.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #36
I'm going to get some sand (coarse particles) and some cement (very fine particles) and perhaps something in between if I can find some stuff ... mix it all up homogeneously ... and deposit it into a half gallon clear jar and video what happens.

Predictions anyone?

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #37
My (admittedly unstudied) prediction is ...

The sand will drop rapidly to the bottom ... the cement will drop more slowly and settle at the top.

In other words ... only two layers ... not several.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #38
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #39
Of course I could be wrong, but that's what I predict.


Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #40
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.
Or something that happens cyclically, like diatom growth cycles.
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Sun Jan 14 2018 19:59:03 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)
you suck at truth detection. (And spelling)

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #41
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.
Or something that happens cyclically, like diatom growth cycles.
Right.  That too.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #42
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #43
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.

How about you take a big basin of water.  Add some sand. Let it settle.  Then add some (geez not cement you idiot) gravel.  Let it settle.  Then add some sand.  Then let it settle.  Then add some gravel. Then let it settle.

Would that be another way of producing layers, Dave?

Here's another experiment you could do:

Take a deep glass of water.  Add some sand and compost, stir it around with a shortish stick so you only stir the upper part of the tank, then put a lid on it and leave it for a while.

Repeat several times. 

After several repeats, what will you see at the bottom of the tank?

I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #44
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.
Or something that happens cyclically, like diatom growth cycles.
Right.  That too.
  So what's the point of your "experiment"?  :dunno:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #45
To muddy the waters?
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #46
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.

How about you take a big basin of water.  Add some sand. Let it settle.  Then add some (geez not cement you idiot) gravel.  Let it settle.  Then add some sand.  Then let it settle.  Then add some gravel. Then let it settle.

Would that be another way of producing layers, Dave?

Here's another experiment you could do:

Take a deep glass of water.  Add some sand and compost, stir it around with a shortish stick so you only stir the upper part of the tank, then put a lid on it and leave it for a while.

Repeat several times. 

After several repeats, what will you see at the bottom of the tank?


Yes, now we are getting somewhere.  I was beginning to think you were afraid of laboratory experiments.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #47
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.

How about you take a big basin of water.  Add some sand. Let it settle.  Then add some (geez not cement you idiot) gravel.  Let it settle.  Then add some sand.  Then let it settle.  Then add some gravel. Then let it settle.

Would that be another way of producing layers, Dave?

Here's another experiment you could do:

Take a deep glass of water.  Add some sand and compost, stir it around with a shortish stick so you only stir the upper part of the tank, then put a lid on it and leave it for a while.

Repeat several times. 

After several repeats, what will you see at the bottom of the tank?


Yes, now we are getting somewhere.  I was beginning to think you were afraid of laboratory experiments.
Both Pingu and I actually work in laboratories, Hawkins.
You don't.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #48
So there are two key experiments we would want to perform ...

1) Adding mixed particle size sediment to CALM water multiple times, and
2) Adding mixed particle size sediment to MOVING water once

Then study and compare the resulting layers.

  • Pingu
Re: Oh. My. Gosh. Guy Berthault Video Gold
Reply #49
I predict that in order to get several layers, you would have to deposit the sand and cement in MOVING water ... so you need a flume.

How about you take a big basin of water.  Add some sand. Let it settle.  Then add some (geez not cement you idiot) gravel.  Let it settle.  Then add some sand.  Then let it settle.  Then add some gravel. Then let it settle.

Would that be another way of producing layers, Dave?

Here's another experiment you could do:

Take a deep glass of water.  Add some sand and compost, stir it around with a shortish stick so you only stir the upper part of the tank, then put a lid on it and leave it for a while.

Repeat several times. 

After several repeats, what will you see at the bottom of the tank?


Yes, now we are getting somewhere.  I was beginning to think you were afraid of laboratory experiments.
Both Pingu and I actually work in laboratories, Hawkins.
You don't.

In fact Dave frequently tries to claim that BECAUSE we work in laboratories we don't work in the "real world".
I have a Darwin-debased mind.