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Topic: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape (Read 50235 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2925
What I meant there, and maybe it wasn't clear, was that they wanted to lessen US influence around the globe, and yeah I do think that's the case to a non-negligible degree.

It wasn't just shitposting, either. It was astroturfing actual on the ground rallies and organizations. I dunno, it's certainly possible that absent any Russian interference at all, Trump still wins and this country still looks dumber and more useless than ever internationally. But for such a small investment, it's not a bad chance to take.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2926

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2927
Yeah the whole thing is posted above.

Probably my favorite thing I've read in the indictment so far is how they targeted Jill Stein and Bernie-Bro type voters using the same rhetoric that they were using to denigrate Clinton and support Trump.
yeah how about that

my bernie bro brother is completely reformed and apologetic for falling for it.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2928
It is interesting that Russia very easily identified our biggest morons.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2929
Yeah. It's mainly about sowing discord and distrust and fucking up America civilly and socially. They've astroturfed for MAGA and Bernie and BLM and alt-right and probably every group but Clinton. Their main geopolitical goal is to weaken the US, and oh man did they do that for like $5M total.

did they really, though? like how can we gauge the effectiveness of any of their efforts here. to put this in perspective, clinton's campaign raised 1.4 billion dollars and had 4,200 staffers. given this i'm really not sure what to make of 5 mil in facebook ads or twitter shitposts or whatever.

Dunno man, since cutting the cord, I haven't seen any TV political ads. OTOH, my social media was blasted with all things political during the last season.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2930
What I meant there, and maybe it wasn't clear, was that they wanted to lessen US influence around the globe, and yeah I do think that's the case to a non-negligible degree.

It wasn't just shitposting, either. It was astroturfing actual on the ground rallies and organizations. I dunno, it's certainly possible that absent any Russian interference at all, Trump still wins and this country still looks dumber and more useless than ever internationally. But for such a small investment, it's not a bad chance to take.

it's definitely relevant that they tried, but the thing is, this is all "exacerbate existing shit" and i'm not sure what the marginal value of that is in many cases. like targeting MAGA chuds and bernouts: these people already hated clinton. what, were they going to vote against her twice?

in the list of things you pointed out that they targeted, the one that worries me most is honestly BLM. it is really, really easy to see this revelation being used as a pretext to marginalize discourse about real issues like the rampant unchecked murder of black people by police. i have already seen "putin is laughing at us" type shit trotted out to dismiss dissent. you've got centrist morons openly talking about a propaganda cold war 2 against russia. yeah, laugh at the bernouts who fell for dumb shit that already validated their views, but before we accept the idea that this stuff was really critically determinative, we should insist on some degree of proof that it was beyond "i dunno, it was a close election so maybe."

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2931

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2932

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2933

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2934

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2935

in the list of things you pointed out that they targeted, the one that worries me most is honestly BLM. it is really, really easy to see this revelation being used as a pretext to marginalize discourse about real issues like the rampant unchecked murder of black people by police. i have already seen "putin is laughing at us" type shit trotted out to dismiss dissent. you've got centrist morons openly talking about a propaganda cold war 2 against russia. yeah, laugh at the bernouts who fell for dumb shit that already validated their views, but before we accept the idea that this stuff was really critically determinative, we should insist on some degree of proof that it was beyond "i dunno, it was a close election so maybe."

you'll love this story!!

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/18/media/black-fist-russia-self-defense-classes/index.html

Russian trolls paid black guys to hold martial arts classes and send them pictures as proof of training or whatever.

The pictures were then used to spread BLM attack training propaganda

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2936
The one more or less consistent goal of all of their tactics was discourage support for Clinton and encourage support for Trump, and if appropriate, encourage a subset of potential Clinton voters to vote for Bernie or Stein instead.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2937
something deeply :ironicat: about a nationalist movement being astroturfed by foreigners

or maybe ffuy will come along to point out all the times this has happened historically

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2938
something deeply :ironicat: about a nationalist movement being astroturfed by foreigners

or maybe ffuy will come along to point out all the times this has happened historically

closest thing i can think of atm is napoleon III being trolled into the franco-prussian war.

  • MSG
Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2939
the pdf is an image rather than text goddamnit.
nah, it's text

it's pretty easy to convert a pdf to text (Word, Excel etc) anyway
braying among the ruins

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2940
Yeah. It's mainly about sowing discord and distrust and fucking up America civilly and socially. They've astroturfed for MAGA and Bernie and BLM and alt-right and probably every group but Clinton. Their main geopolitical goal is to weaken the US, and oh man did they do that for like $5M total.

did they really, though? like how can we gauge the effectiveness of any of their efforts here. to put this in perspective, clinton's campaign raised 1.4 billion dollars and had 4,200 staffers. given this i'm really not sure what to make of 5 mil in facebook ads or twitter shitposts or whatever.
Weaponized Social Network Analysis favors entropy rather than community. It's the same principle as one angry customer can negate 50 happy ones.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2941
It is interesting that Russia very easily identified our biggest morons.
I don't think it's simply about intelligence.  I know intelligent people who got duped to varying degrees, some of them here on this forum.  I think being resistant to propaganda takes some additional ingredients, like having a nose for bullshit, being conscious of manipulation techniques, paying the right amount of attention to your gut when it tells you some new information sounds off, etc.  or just being a galaxy brain atheist who sees the truth of everything.

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2942
Whether interference changed the outcome of the election is basically unknowable and isn't really the most important question to be asking, especially since you'll never reach a satisfactory answer.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2943
Whether interference changed the outcome of the election is basically unknowable and isn't really the most important question to be asking, especially since you'll never reach a satisfactory answer.

this isn't going to stop people from acting on the assumption that it was super effective, is my concern.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2944
Whether interference changed the outcome of the election is basically unknowable and isn't really the most important question to be asking, especially since you'll never reach a satisfactory answer.
It's going to have error bars but it isn't unknowable entirely. If we reconstruct their social network map with their relevance model, we can do a pretty good job of identifying the amplification effects.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2945
How do we make up for 16 years of collapsing higher ed is the real question. A little network analysis doesn't solve that problem.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2946
How do we make up for 16 years of collapsing higher ed is the real question. A little network analysis doesn't solve that problem.
actually, lower ed too.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • meepmeep
  • Administrator
  • zombiecat queen
Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2947
Whether interference changed the outcome of the election is basically unknowable and isn't really the most important question to be asking, especially since you'll never reach a satisfactory answer.

this isn't going to stop people from acting on the assumption that it was super effective, is my concern.

Why is that a big deal?

The degree of success of the interference doesn't change the fact that it was an aggressive act by the Russian government that deserves a diplomatic response of some kind and some introspection on what we can do to root out the ratfuckers in our shitty ass dumb government who happily played along.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2948
Whether interference changed the outcome of the election is basically unknowable and isn't really the most important question to be asking, especially since you'll never reach a satisfactory answer.

this isn't going to stop people from acting on the assumption that it was super effective, is my concern.

Why is that a big deal?

if this interference was effective then there is something at issue beyond diplomatic implications. the actual significant impact that this disinformation campaign had is a problem of its own that needs its own solution in that case.

one way to solve the problem would be to improve education, promote greater media literacy, and resolve some really pressing issues that cause strife so they can't easily be taken advantage of.

another way is to attempt ideological hegemony such that dissenting views are marginalized as the pawns of hostile foreign powers.

i do not have high hopes that the former is more likely to be pursued than the latter, and the latter is something i already see happening in the discourse. it's incredibly convenient for all kinds of powerful people after all.

Re: The Trump Kompromat Fact: Whereby we discuss the realness of the piss tape
Reply #2949
Sounds like something a Russian would say