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Old 07-11-2010, 04:23 PM   #1005747  /  #176
Jerome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Do you think Randi changed the rules - moved the goalposts, as it were - because he sensed that Alternative Reality Enthusiasts were getting too close to claiming the prize?
No, I think he "moves the goalposts" so that no one has the opportunity.

Why do you think he has rules which have prevented anyone from challenging for the $1million prize?
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:42 PM   #1005757  /  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Do you think Randi changed the rules - moved the goalposts, as it were - because he sensed that Alternative Reality Enthusiasts were getting too close to claiming the prize?
No, I think he "moves the goalposts" so that no one has the opportunity.
Yes? And why do you think he would want to do that? I would think he'd want everyone with a decent chance of making a case, at least worth paying attention to, to have a go at it. Thus bolstering his position that claims for "the paranormal" are all bullshit. Just like in that Australian video.

Do you think he's worried that someone's going to actually succeed at supporting those claims?

That's the question I keep asking you.

Quote:
Why do you think he has rules which have prevented anyone from challenging for the $1million prize?
I don't know that he does. IF he does, my first guess is, as I said, he doesn't want to spend huge amounts of time, effort and resources examining the claims of a hugely increased number of cranks attracted by the hugely increased prize. Do you have some reason to believe he has some other motivation?

Last edited by VoxRat; 07-11-2010 at 06:02 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:48 PM   #1005766  /  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
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The rules have filtered out everyone.

No one has yet been allowed to attempt to preform for the $1 million.
Can you answer my question please?
The rules filter out everyone, your questions have no meaning as they are based upon a premise which is not fact.
In what way do you think they do this?

Quote:
Quote:
Also, when you quote a post to respond to it, can you stop omitting relevant parts of it?
That is going to make a messy thread. Do you think I have ignored something you wrote, I can assure you that I read all of the posts that I respond to.
Yes, I do think you ignored something I wrote, just as you did with VoxRat.
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:50 PM   #1005770  /  #179
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
What preliminary tests?
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:59 PM   #1005781  /  #180
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From the Randi Challenge FAQ:

Quote:
1.4 Has anyone ever gotten past the preliminary test?

No. Some people use this fact as a reason not to apply – and yet the protocol is never altered once the applicant agrees to it. In fact, we ask the applicant to design the test.

1.5 Has anyone taken the formal test?

No. Applicants must pass the preliminary test in order to move on to a formal test. So far, no one has ever performed the paranormal ability they claimed to have.
So from this, it appears that the only filter is that applicants must show that they can do what they claimed to do under test conditions actualy designed by the applicant.

What makes you think, Jerome, that the reason no-one has passed this test isn't simply that they cannot do what they claimed to be able to do under their own test conditions?
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:04 PM   #1005785  /  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hawkins View Post
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I don't know how they managed to inveigle so many decent scientists into this.
Get used to it. What are you going to do Febble, if you live to see the day that ID is the reigning paradigm and materialism goes into the dustbin?
Well, she certainly won't retreat into a fantasy world, hallucinating about the time when it will aaaaall be right again, you'll see- You know, like what you've been doing all your life.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:18 PM   #1005795  /  #182
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I see the thread has moved to new, exciting topics, but still, if Faid can dig it up again, so can IÖ



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What are you going to do Febble, if you live to see the day that ID is the reigning paradigm and materialism goes into the dustbin?
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:45 PM   #1005818  /  #183
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Many people here seem to be convinced that Jack Szostak is making great progress in figuring out the Origin of Life with no need for a Creator. Well, if he figures it out, he can earn $1 million from these folks ...

http://lifeorigin.info/

Anyone know how close he is to qualifying for this prize? Is anyone else in the running?
I was halfway to Greenbelt this morning, so I went the rest of the way to check out the Origin of Life Foundation. Took some pictures:



My eagle eyed husband spotted the small sign near the garage - "Origin of Life Foundation, Inc."


Last edited by ck1; 07-11-2010 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:56 PM   #1005824  /  #184
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^ ^

Hey Dave! Why don't you set up a "Foundation" in your garage, and submit papers to peer-reviewed journals on your "Foundation's" letterhead? And you could offer a $ million (heck! make it a $Billion! Why not!?) for anyone who could demonstrate formation of mammalian life from inorganic precursors!
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:28 PM   #1005847  /  #185
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I wonder if Jerome has any suggestions as to a candidate who should be allowed to take Randi's challenge? Does he know of anyone unfairly excluded from trying for it?

Does Jerome know of anyone who can reliably and reproducibly demonstrate some "paranormal" phenomenon? A dowser with a good success rate, perhaps: a telepath; someone with telekinetic abilities....
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:10 PM   #1005922  /  #186
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I haven't read this whole thread yet, so maybe the answer is to be found herein. I'm just curious whether we can be reasonably confident that Dave has abandoned the thread about modeling evolution with computer programs, the thread in which he got his ass handed to him so many times. I'd only like to know because I'm interested in doing more parodies of Dave, and I wonder whether I should do them here, or in the aforementioned thread. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:16 PM   #1005933  /  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
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Can you answer my question please?
The rules filter out everyone, your questions have no meaning as they are based upon a premise which is not fact.
In what way do you think they do this?
The rules which are designed such that any arbitrary excuse can be made to prevent anyone from competing for the challenge based upon the fact that exactly zero people have been allowed to compete for the $1million.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:20 PM   #1005941  /  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
From the Randi Challenge FAQ:

Quote:
1.4 Has anyone ever gotten past the preliminary test?

No. Some people use this fact as a reason not to apply Ė and yet the protocol is never altered once the applicant agrees to it. In fact, we ask the applicant to design the test.

1.5 Has anyone taken the formal test?

No. Applicants must pass the preliminary test in order to move on to a formal test. So far, no one has ever performed the paranormal ability they claimed to have.
So from this, it appears that the only filter is that applicants must show that they can do what they claimed to do under test conditions actualy designed by the applicant.

What makes you think, Jerome, that the reason no-one has passed this test isn't simply that they cannot do what they claimed to be able to do under their own test conditions?
We simply don't know what presenters have presented and why all presenters have been rejected from the challenge before an opportunity to challenge for the $1 million.

An honest challenge would allow the examination of the presenters and why the JREF did not allow them to challenge for the prize.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:21 PM   #1005947  /  #189
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on one hand, I can see what JEROME is driving at. on the other hand, I know there is no such thing as magic spells and also I know that JEROME is a troll.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:22 PM   #1005949  /  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinM View Post
Quote:
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What preliminary tests?
Could you please present the preliminary test for any applicant, and the reason the JREF refused to allow said presenter to compete for the prize.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:25 PM   #1005952  /  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damitall View Post
I wonder if Damitall has any suggestions as to a candidate who should be allowed to take Jack Szostak's challenge? Does he know of anyone unfairly excluded from trying for it?

Does Damitall know of anyone who can reliably and reproducibly demonstrate some "highly plausible natural-process mechanism for the spontaneous rise of genetic instructions in nature sufficient to give rise to life" phenomenon?
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #1005953  /  #192
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Quote:
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Did I successfully troll that other thread? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #1005956  /  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Could you please present the preliminary test for any applicant, and the reason the JREF refused to allow said presenter to compete for the prize.
Here you go.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:35 PM   #1005977  /  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Could you please present the preliminary test for any applicant, and the reason the JREF refused to allow said presenter to compete for the prize.
Here you go.
Quote:
Sonne now claims that Banachek, who she agreed to accept as the official tester, had cheated her out of passing the preliminary test. As it happens, many individuals on both the JREF forums and attending the in-person press conference wondered aloud at our willingness to allow a "magician" to run the test, so I want to set the record straight.

Firstly, Banachek is a mentalist, not a magician.
Sounds like this was a corrupted test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism

Mentalism is a performing art in which its practitioners, known as mentalists, appear to demonstrate highly developed mental or intuitive abilities.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:36 PM   #1005980  /  #195
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
I haven't read this whole thread yet, so maybe the answer is to be found herein. I'm just curious whether we can be reasonably confident that Dave has abandoned the thread about modeling evolution with computer programs, the thread in which he got his ass handed to him so many times. I'd only like to know because I'm interested in doing more parodies of Dave, and I wonder whether I should do them here, or in the aforementioned thread. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!
I'm pretty sure this is the spot now. Looking at the way that dave abandoned the zircon thread despite people like loechelt really trying to help him out, and in the programming one where febble was doing the same, he's just falling back on this now.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:38 PM   #1005983  /  #196
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MartinM, why did Randi need a fake to run the test?
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:39 PM   #1005986  /  #197
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jerome is trolling you guys. don't worry about him. and for god's sake don't say, "I know he's trolling, I'm just messing with him." Just ignore him. He doesn't believe in any of that magic shit either, as long as you don't count the invisible hand of the free market
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:40 PM   #1005991  /  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts View Post
jerome is trolling you guys. don't worry about him. and for god's sake don't say, "I know he's trolling, I'm just messing with him." Just ignore him. He doesn't believe in any of that magic shit either, as long as you don't count the invisible hand of the free market
Pains me to say it, but I agree completely with young Bart!
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:44 PM   #1006000  /  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post

The rules filter out everyone, your questions have no meaning as they are based upon a premise which is not fact.
In what way do you think they do this?
The rules which are designed such that any arbitrary excuse can be made to prevent anyone from competing for the challenge based upon the fact that exactly zero people have been allowed to compete for the $1million.
Let's parse this sentence. First of all, let's pay close attention to the question that it's supposed to be answering:

Quote:
In what way do you think they do this?
"they" being "the rules" and "this" being "filtering out everyone"

Next, let's note that the "sentence" we're about to parse is, in fact, not a sentence at all.
Quote:
The rules which are designed such that any arbitrary excuse can be made to prevent anyone from competing for the challenge based upon the fact that exactly zero people have been allowed to compete for the $1million.
See? you have a subject, followed by an adjectival subordinate clause followed by some sort of misplaced participial phrase. The subject has no predicate. In other words, the (pseudo)sentence doesn't say anything.

Now, dysfunctional grammar can result from many things: poor education, sloppy thinking, conscious or subconscious intent to avoid clarity... I have an hypothesis what it is in this case, if anyone's interested.

Quote:
The rules which are designed such that any arbitrary excuse can be made to prevent anyone from competing for the challenge
... that seems to be just a reassertion of the assertion for which some backing is being requested.

Quote:
based upon the fact that exactly zero people have been allowed to compete for the $1million.
what is this misplaced modifier supposed to be modifying?
What is "based on [blah blah blah]"? Are "the rules" based on that? Is the alleged "arbitrary excuse" based on that? Is the conclusion that "the rules are designed such that [blah blah blah]" based on that?

Quote:
... the fact that exactly zero people have been allowed to compete for the $1million.
Is that a fact? It looks to me like another assertion that demands support. That support would need to include exactly what is meant by "allowed to compete".

In short a meaningless handful of words, not constituting a sentence, thrown at a question, not answering it.

I'll leave it to the reader to judge what the relationship between posting it and being a dishonest little shit might be.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:44 PM   #1006002  /  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by damitall View Post
I wonder if Damitall has any suggestions as to a candidate who should be allowed to take Jack Szostak's challenge? Does he know of anyone unfairly excluded from trying for it?

Does Damitall know of anyone who can reliably and reproducibly demonstrate some "highly plausible natural-process mechanism for the spontaneous rise of genetic instructions in nature sufficient to give rise to life" phenomenon?
fify
My answer to those questions is, in each case, "probably not".

But then I have no interest in, knowledge of, or opinion about, the test to which you refer. You, on the other hand, seem to have both knowledge and opinion on the Randi test.

Your point?

Furthermore, I do not believe you can cite any instance where paranormal abilities have been openly and repeatedly demonstrated in an environment that prevents cheating and bias.

Last edited by damitall; 07-11-2010 at 07:50 PM.
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