Frenemies of TalkRational:
Nontheist Nexus |  Rants'n'Raves |  Secular Cafe |  Council of Ex-Muslims |  The Skeptical Zone |  rationalia |  Rational Skepticism |  Atheists Today | 
TalkRational  

FAQ Rules Staff List Calendar RSS
Go Back   TalkRational > Discussion > Life Science Discussions

Life Science Discussions Biology, Natural History, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2012, 04:37 PM   #1842316  /  #1
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default Intermediate Flatfish Fossil Found

...in a museum drawer.

This seems suspiciously similar to a story from a year or two ago, but it seems to be current.
Quote:
Matt Friedman, a paleobiologist at University of Oxford in the United Kingdom, found a sort of flatfish missing link in a drawer of unidentified fish fossils in the Natural History Museum of Vienna, Austria.
I don't have the cite, and I don't know if the paper is open access, but it is being published in the July issue of Vertebrate Paleotology.
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #1842362  /  #2
Monad
Rabbit in your headlights
Mod: LSD, Phys Sci
 
Monad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 12,702
Monad
Default

What, another one?
Monad is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 05:59 PM   #1842404  /  #3
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

I repeat:
Quote:
This seems suspiciously similar to a story from a year or two ago
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 06:28 PM   #1842441  /  #4
Bilirubin
YOU HEINOUS TOOL
Bejeweled 2 Champion Adjunct
 
Bilirubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SOME GODDAMNED METEOR FLYING AT LIGHT SPEED
Posts: 27,404
Bilirubin
Default

Ed Yong noticed the same thing.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksen View Post
Also, if you guys think I've been way out of line you can recall me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the BEST elf View Post
i've always hated "well recall me then" as the only meaningful thing that can be done when a mod does stupid shit. it should not be an all or nothing proposition.
Bilirubin is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 06:35 PM   #1842445  /  #5
teeth!
trollo trollini trollus est
Commissar
 
teeth!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: talkrationalo trollenda est
Posts: 47,372
teeth!
Default

Science paper was a few years back. This is the full description.
__________________
In the land of the talentless, the one-trick pony is king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
I suppose it's good for society that I'm not an alpha wolf then.
teeth! is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #1842446  /  #6
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

There ya go. De nada!
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 06:39 PM   #1842448  /  #7
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasona View Post
Ed Yong noticed the same thing.
Ha ha! Yeah. Pitch-perfect tone.

Well, at least now we know how I was able to beat SteveF to the punch: there was no punch to beat.

Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:13 PM   #1842563  /  #8
Martin B
CAPS LOCK ON
 
Martin B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: few places long enough.
Posts: 2,203
Martin B
Default

The coverage of this is out of hand, to the point that Matt Friedman is being tarred with unfounded accusations of double-publication or self-plagiarism.

Maybe Ed Yong could be a little more careful about how he handles this?
Martin B is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:20 PM   #1842573  /  #9
teeth!
trollo trollini trollus est
Commissar
 
teeth!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: talkrationalo trollenda est
Posts: 47,372
teeth!
Default

Especially since Matt is doing everything right.
__________________
In the land of the talentless, the one-trick pony is king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
I suppose it's good for society that I'm not an alpha wolf then.
teeth! is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #1842575  /  #10
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

The problem isn't the study authors, the problem is the news release author.

I think that's reasonably clear in Ed's post.

What specific aspect of the post do you think is problematic?
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:32 PM   #1842603  /  #11
Martin B
CAPS LOCK ON
 
Martin B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: few places long enough.
Posts: 2,203
Martin B
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviepinhead View Post
The problem isn't the study authors, the problem is the news release author.

I think that's reasonably clear in Ed's post.

What specific aspect of the post do you think is problematic?
Ed is indeed mostly focusing on the news release issue. But not entirely, when he writes:

Quote:
As far as Iím aware, itís a more detailed description of the same specimen, and some discussion about its relationship to other fish. Or maybe whatís new is that theyíre writing about it for the second time, which they clearly couldnít do the first time round :-/
I've asked him to clarify what he means by that, because it can easily be misunderstood to imply that the author is merely padding his publication list. Indeed, at least one commenter on the blog already seems to be taking it this way.

Ed can clarify what he wrote, and I hope he will. However, I've just witnessed at least one professional colleague lay the blame squarely on Matt in a Facebook thread. Not cool.
Martin B is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:36 PM   #1842609  /  #12
Bilirubin
YOU HEINOUS TOOL
Bejeweled 2 Champion Adjunct
 
Bilirubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SOME GODDAMNED METEOR FLYING AT LIGHT SPEED
Posts: 27,404
Bilirubin
Default

Goddamn how long does the Discover blogs moderation process take?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksen View Post
Also, if you guys think I've been way out of line you can recall me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the BEST elf View Post
i've always hated "well recall me then" as the only meaningful thing that can be done when a mod does stupid shit. it should not be an all or nothing proposition.
Bilirubin is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:42 PM   #1842614  /  #13
DaveGodfrey
Demoderated
 
DaveGodfrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,162
DaveGodfrey
Default

I mentioned the difference between the Nature paper which was basically "hey look at this fossil I found in a drawer, and means X,Y,Z" and this paper which goes into far more detail than anything published in the tabloids.

I think Ed Yong may be right in that another paper in JVP might have been more deserving of the limelight- the fact that the press release retreads the one that accompanied the Nature paper does JVP no favours, but that has nothing to do with Matt Friedman.

Of course the other obvious candidate for publicity is the description of Materpisces attenboroughi, which was... oh, wait.... um...
__________________
Why do I bother?
DaveGodfrey is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 08:51 PM   #1842628  /  #14
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

I don't have any problem at all with the detailed follow-up publication.

I do feel misled by the news release, and don't understand that author's reluctance to clarify his article.

Especially when it leads to reprehensible behavior like this:
Quote:
I've just witnessed at least one professional colleague lay the blame squarely on Matt in a Facebook thread. Not cool.
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:26 PM   #1842667  /  #15
SteveF
Pleistocene person
 
SteveF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 27,217
SteveF
Default

This is poor from Ed, surprisingly so. A clarification below his post would be useful. I'd do it, but better coming from Martin I think.
SteveF is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:27 PM   #1842669  /  #16
PerseusOmega9
Saves People From Themselves
 
PerseusOmega9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Piedmont, NC
Posts: 6,598
PerseusOmega9
Default

Instead of intermediate fish fossil discovered, don't you mean two more missing links?
PerseusOmega9 is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:40 PM   #1842684  /  #17
DaveGodfrey
Demoderated
 
DaveGodfrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,162
DaveGodfrey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
This is poor from Ed, surprisingly so. A clarification below his post would be useful. I'd do it, but better coming from Martin I think.
Three of us have already got in there, although looking at the next comment it doesn't appear to have headed the accusations off at the pass.
__________________
Why do I bother?
DaveGodfrey is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:42 PM   #1842685  /  #18
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
This is poor from Ed, surprisingly so. A clarification below his post would be useful. I'd do it, but better coming from Martin I think.
WHAT is "poor from Ed"? I don't see him criticizing the study author; I see him criticising the release author, who was given an opportunity to clarify, and failed to take it.

This is the quote singled out by MartinB:
Quote:
As far as I’m aware, it’s a more detailed description of the same specimen, and some discussion about its relationship to other fish. Or maybe what’s new is that they’re writing about it for the second time, which they clearly couldn’t do the first time round :-/
So let's look at the first sentence:
Quote:
As far as I’m aware, it’s a more detailed description of the same specimen, and some discussion about its relationship to other fish.
Where's the problem? What's "poor" about this?

Here's the second sentence:
Quote:
Or maybe what’s new is that they’re writing about it for the second time, which they clearly couldn’t do the first time round :-/
That's pretty self-evident humor, with perhaps a hint of seriousness implied by the "undecided" smilie...

So is Ed "poor" for using an "undecided" smilie?

Last edited by Steviepinhead; 06-26-2012 at 09:50 PM.
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:49 PM   #1842697  /  #19
SteveF
Pleistocene person
 
SteveF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 27,217
SteveF
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviepinhead View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
This is poor from Ed, surprisingly so. A clarification below his post would be useful. I'd do it, but better coming from Martin I think.
WHAT is "poor from Ed"? I don't see him criticizing the study author; I see him criticising the release author, who was given an opportunity to clarify, and failed to take it.
Check out Martin's post above.
SteveF is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 09:58 PM   #1842713  /  #20
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

See my edit. Expand on your point.
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 10:07 PM   #1842725  /  #21
SteveF
Pleistocene person
 
SteveF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 27,217
SteveF
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviepinhead View Post
Expand on your point.
I'm not usually in the habit of complying with internet demands, so I might not be doing that if that's OK by you.
SteveF is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 10:19 PM   #1842746  /  #22
Steviepinhead
Senior Member
 
Steviepinhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31,113
Steviepinhead
Default

Heh.

Let's hope Ed Yong feels different when he gets those "internet demands" that he "clarify" his undecided smilie...
Steviepinhead is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 10:32 PM   #1842758  /  #23
teeth!
trollo trollini trollus est
Commissar
 
teeth!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: talkrationalo trollenda est
Posts: 47,372
teeth!
Default

Ed is patently wrong here.
__________________
In the land of the talentless, the one-trick pony is king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
I suppose it's good for society that I'm not an alpha wolf then.
teeth! is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 10:37 PM   #1842765  /  #24
buttershug
Hung
Zaptonia Defense Champion, Summer Sports Match Champion, Attack Of The Fan Girls Champion, Budapest Defenders Champion, When Penguins Attack TD Champion, Flash RPG Tower Defense Champion
 
buttershug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,439
buttershug
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviepinhead View Post
Expand on your point.
I'm not usually in the habit of complying with internet demands, so I might not be doing that if that's OK by you.
I thought it was more of an internet invite than an internet demand.

SPH please clarify.
__________________
Quote:
Only the madman is absolutely sure.

Robert Anton Wilson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3YQ24i1wP0
buttershug is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Old 06-26-2012, 10:38 PM   #1842766  /  #25
borealis
cruel but fair
 
borealis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,959
borealis
Default

Cool, fossil writin' fight!
borealis is offline   Reply With Quote topbottom
Reply

  TalkRational > Discussion > Life Science Discussions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2008 - 2014, TalkRational.org