An Atheist contemplates his own mortality

[VoxRat]

Originally Posted by ninewands

...Besides that ... I've been doin' a lot of pondering on my situation (TBH, how could anyone NOT do that??), what I think about it and how I feel about it, and this is about what I've come up with. (BTW, don't try to "correct" me ... you really CAN'T know what I'm talking about until you've been here and I HOPE none of y'all EVER understand ...)

And yet... even though I'm in good health for the meantime, I know I've seen a lot more yesterdays than I will tomorrows (I think that's how Bill Clinton phrased it to Monica ), whatever it is that eventually takes me away.

I don't see your situation fundamentally different from mine. All of us can regret the finiteness of the future. Or get the most out of the present.

I admire you a lot. Hope to meet you in person one of these days. Hang in there.

[JamesBannon]

Originally Posted by ninewands

Speaking as a hypocrite, I'm going to agree with Cath on this. Yes ... hypocrite. I fell off the wagon. You know what the oncologist said? She said,

So, how does all that allow me to fall off the wagon and still campaign against it among my friends? This part:

says "If you don't actually HAVE lung cancer now, either diagnosed or undiagnosed, and you quit ... NOW ... dammit! quitting now just MIGHT be the factor that determinrs whether you get it or not

So, James, my friend ... quit ... NOW ... DAMMIT! while you still have a chance for quitting to do some good. Waiting to be informed that you have been killed by lung cancer and/or COPD before you're motivated enough to quit is just plain STOOPID!

(Manfully, of course)

I've never claimed to be anything other than stoopid, 9W My doc says the same thing. He asked if I knew what damage cigarettes could cause and I gave him a dozen diseases off the top of my head! He then asked, if I knew that, why did I smoke? Same reason anyone else does - I'm addicted.

BTW: Your doc is correct. There is no evidence that continuing to smoke during treatment has any effect on the effectiveness of the chemotherapy. Once you're in remission it is an entirely different story. It is still inadvisable, however, because it does affect gaseous exchange.

And, of course, smoking is a stupid thing to do (says he lighting up another cigarette) which is why I would strongly advise that people don't even think about starting. Like all addictions, it is insidious and you never really come to realise just how strongly addictive nicotine is (something to do with the way it affects the brain I believe).

[Thalia Thinks]

9W, I hope you know that when we say you are an inspiration that we mean it.

Many of us will face something similar to this someday and you have served as a role model. We can go back and re-read all this and feel as though someone else in this big world knew how we feel, to some degree.

Your journey (maybe wrong word, it makes it sound exciting) has given me strength. When I'm feeling down about something I can look at you and think that if you can keep fighting so can I. In turn, I think that we have all given you a small bit of strength. It's an amazing thing that you have let us all share this time with you.

[recursive prophet]

Thanks so much for sharing 9W. For the more aware, and also those who had near death events at birth according to one study, your situation is faced regularly. There are even decent odds given the view numbers on this thread, that some who have come here to read your thoughts will be released from mortal bonds before yourself. Life is but a game after all, and even the big winners don’t get out alive.

If you ever read Steppenwolf by Hess, you may recall a group he refers to as the ‘suicides.’ It’s a mindset I found familiar; things can only get as bad as you allow them to except in a small number of instances. A great short read on mortality can be found online. Try Asimov’s The Last Answer for some very interesting perspectives on this subject, and good luck. May you live as long as you want, and not a day loner. My wish for us all.

Oh yeah, and here's one of my better short poems I wrote decades ago.

Death’s Lover

I’ve had a love affair with death
From the day that I was born
When I stood at the portals of life’s mortal bond
And there paused, my desires torn

For I knew the time had come to end
My blessed unity
That now I’d have to stand alone,
And to feel, and hear, and see.

Alone in the light; beneath a stranger’s glare
And through those eyes I would somehow know
That I now had my space, and had entered the race
Yet be haunted wherever I might go

For I knew that for certain, my lover would return
Once again in her arms I would be
Then together back we’d walk, with no need to feel or talk
Through the halls of eternity.

[ninewands]

Just so everybody knows, I'm still running around stirring up trouble at random and cussing the spastic twitches I have in my hands. An internist friend recommended that I ask the pain doc about a mild muscle relaxer, like Flexeril, since my electrolytes all seem to be in balance and in adequate quantities. They don't cause any pain, or anything like that but they make it HELL to type.

The Asimov piece was interesting, and sort of similar to the place I am in. The poem ... yeah ... in a way life really IS a circle ... I just don't believe in the "halls of eternity." So, in my case, the circle is broken. That's okay by me.

[Febble]

Originally Posted by ninewands

Just so everybody knows, I'm still running around stirring up trouble at random and cussing the spastic twitches I have in my hands. An internist friend recommended that I ask the pain doc about a mild muscle relaxer, like Flexeril, since my electrolytes all seem to be in balance and in adequate quantities. They don't cause any pain, or anything like that but they make it HELL to type.

The Asimov piece was interesting, and sort of similar to the place I am in. The poem ... yeah ... in a way life really IS a circle ... I just don't believe in the "halls of eternity." So, in my case, the circle is broken. That's okay by me.

Have you read Hofstadter's I am A Strange Loop? It contains one of the most moving and enlightening pieces on death that I think I have ever read - about his wife Carol, who died unexpectedly when his children were very young.

There's a nice review of it here, in Time:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...599720,00.html

[Febble]

Originally Posted by ninewands

Just so everybody knows, I'm still running around stirring up trouble at random.

Excellent.

[Gagundathar Inexplicable]

Ah yes... stirring up trouble at Random.

That reminds me of this url http://www.geocities.com/terrorsmart...citynames.html

Good to know you are still kicking at the traces, my friend.

[ninewands]

Originally Posted by Febble

Have you read Hofstadter's I am A Strange Loop? It contains one of the most moving and enlightening pieces on death that I think I have ever read - about his wife Carol, who died unexpectedly when his children were very young.

There's a nice review of it here, in Time:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...599720,00.html

I will have to look for it next time I hit the book store, Lizzie. Thanks for the recommend.

[BWE]

Has someone already quoted Blake in this thread?

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

I'm glad to see you posting.

[SteveF]

Originally Posted by BWE

Has someone already quoted Blake in this thread?

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

4 lines that are used to introduce geology PhD theses the world over.

[BWE]

Originally Posted by SteveF

4 lines that are used to introduce geology PhD theses the world over.

I never really get tired of Blake.

[SteveF]

Me neither.

[ninewands]

Originally Posted by BWE

Has someone already quoted Blake in this thread?

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

I'm glad to see you posting.

I like Blake too, although "Jerusalem" gets kind of old after you've watched the last night of Proms enough times on the telly.

[ninewands]

Originally Posted by SteveF

4 lines that are used to introduce geology PhD theses the world over.

"Auguries of Innocence?" in a geology PhD dissertation?

INNOCENCE???

I find that a little hard to believe ...

[Febble]

Originally Posted by SteveF

4 lines that are used to introduce geology PhD theses the world over.

LOL.

[Febble]

Originally Posted by ninewands

I like Blake too, although "Jerusalem" gets kind of old after you've watched the last night of Proms enough times on the telly.

I like Donne. And Marvell.

Originally Posted by Andrew Marvell

Now let us sport us while we may;
And now, like am'rous birds of prey,
Rather at once our time devour,
Than languish in his slow-chapp'd power.
Let us roll all our strength, and all
Our sweetness, up into one ball;
And tear our pleasures with rough strife
Thorough the iron gates of life.
Thus, though we cannot make our sun
Stand still, yet we will make him run.

Make him run, 9w

[JamesBannon]

Originally Posted by ninewands

I like Blake too, although "Jerusalem" gets kind of old after you've watched the last night of Proms enough times on the telly.

I loathe last night at the proms! it should read "last night of the jingoism of the poms"!

Anyway, glad you're still kicking ass, 9W.

[recursive prophet]

Originally Posted by ninewands

The Asimov piece was interesting, and sort of similar to the place I am in. The poem ... yeah ... in a way life really IS a circle ... I just don't believe in the "halls of eternity." So, in my case, the circle is broken. That's okay by me.

Glad you liked The Last Answer and are still posting 9W. By the "halls of eternity" I was referring to the "blessed unity" of oblivion. We begin from a 'non-being' status, and I see death simply as the circle being completed with our inevitable return to that default state. Life is but a game of sorts, and even the winners don't get out alive.

[ninewands]

Originally Posted by recursive prophet

Glad you liked The Last Answer and are still posting 9W. By the "halls of eternity" I was referring to the "blessed unity" of oblivion. We begin from a 'non-being' status, and I see death simply as the circle being completed with our inevitable return to that default state.

As do I.

Life is but a game of sorts, and even the winners don't get out alive.

Well put. Indeed, VERY well put. In fact, I think I'll steal it for a sig ... with suitable attribution, of course.

[JamesBannon]

Originally Posted by recursive prophet

Glad you liked The Last Answer and are still posting 9W. By the "halls of eternity" I was referring to the "blessed unity" of oblivion. We begin from a 'non-being' status, and I see death simply as the circle being completed with our inevitable return to that default state. Life is but a game of sorts, and even the winners don't get out alive.

Or, there are no such things as winners and losers in the game of life. Everyone ends up the same way ... dead! A rotting corpse, fit only as food for the scavenging insects who clean up after us. Still, might as well do the best we can while we're here!

[recursive prophet]

WOW! You just made my day ninewands!! This is only the second time anyone has ever used a quote from me on their sig. The other just happened 2 days ago ironically, but was intended as an insult by someone on RDF who absolutely loathes a user I have praised, and now he's after me.

Writing this reply I recalled a blog I posted long ago on MySpace, and thought you might enjoy reading the conclusion of it as it contains one of my all time favorite quotes from Asimov, which I put in italics below.

Ah, you come to that very early. I knew you were a good choice, the presence answers, actually seeming pleased. And then comes the true epiphany to our narrator. This is the real reason he has been resurrected. For what greater goal could a conscious being, aware of it’s own eternal existence have, then not to exist.

I have liberally paraphrased Isaac’s words in relating this story. The primary idea, however, is in tact. Discussing it with a friend recently I was suddenly reminded of the ancient Buddhist koan: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! What greater service could you render? And is death his gift to us? An act of God’s-or whatever we choose to call the source of our creation-mercy? Wouldn’t a never ending flow of individual conscious thought eventually become hell under any imaginable circumstances? Is the sound of one hand clapping one of applause, or instruction, or both?"

It has always amazed me people who get bored on Sundays if unable to watch various groups of men moving various types of balls through various kinds of apertures, live in hope of eternal life. Much I suspect is owing to separation anxiety when loved ones die. I feel fortunate that I was exposed to the reality of death likely on a very deep subconscious level at birth. For as Heidegger said-loosely translated and paraphrased; "Only to the degree that we can acknowledge our potential for non-being can we embrace the relative enormity of our fleeting moments of with-being." Sadly, so many never get there. It is mostly those who learn what they always knew was coming is clearly at hand that ever have the opportunity to experience it.

One final note; if you liked The Last Answer, read what Asimov considered-and I agree-to be his very best story: The Last Question. Just Google it and you can read it online. It's about the same length as TLQ. And thanks again so very much for the compliment. It couldn't have come at a better time.

[BWE]

How are things 9W?

[ninewands]

Benn crankin' right along there my fren' ... I have a busy day at Anderson this Friday, starting with a visit to the vampire's den at 10:35 am to get blood drawn (we have lazy, lazy vampires here in South Texas) and ending with a chemo treatment scheduled for 5:00 PM (which means it'll probably actually happen about 6:00 PM). Then I gets to spend my Memorial Day weekend with my daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter! YAY ... Yippee-Skippy! WhOOP de DOO! You know ... it really IS true ... if I'd have known how much FUN grandkids are, I would have had THEM first!

Anybody who doesn't care for my "excessive" enthusiasm can go start your OWN thread!

[Febble]

Cool

I want grandchildren now.

On the other hand, as my son is fifteen, maybe I'm happy to wait....