Urban Heat Island Crock - Page 2

fragment · 02-02-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

But someone who doesn't get their hands dirty with the original studies from which the temperatures come from would never know how the data was modified, as it is NEVER discussed when such maps are displayed for general consumption.

Funny. When I read the GISTemp web pages, where the graph you're commenting on came from, it is quite clearly stated that "the urban and peri-urban (i.e., other than rural) stations are adjusted so that their long-term trend matches that of the mean of neighboring rural stations". So your upper-case NEVER is easily shown to be false, I invite you to retract it.

Blueskyboris · 02-03-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueskyboris

YouTube- 5. Climate Change -- isn't it natural?

These videos are by a JOURNALIST who has been lead down a path by ideological science with an agenda to push. What he has been lead to believe -- that his 4 drivers of insolation, greenhouse gases, particulate cooling, and positive feedback -- have been showed to accurately predict observed climate changes, is complete hogwash. None of these things, and no combination of these things, has been observed to dramatically change with the start and stop of each ice age, when the climate most dramatically changes.

Based on?

pythagoras · 02-05-2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragment

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

These videos are by a JOURNALIST who has been lead down a path by ideological science with an agenda to push. What he has been lead to believe -- that his 4 drivers of insolation, greenhouse gases, particulate cooling, and positive feedback -- have been showed to accurately predict observed climate changes, is complete hogwash. None of these things, and no combination of these things, has been observed to dramatically change with the start and stop of each ice age, when the climate most dramatically changes.

It's really only the end of glaciations which change dramatically - going into glaciations tends to be more of a slow, interrupted slide. Glaciations and inter-glacials can also be punctuated by fairly rapid but short-lived changes. For the end of the most recent glaciation, you could look at Monnin et al (2001) (to pick the first google hit):

Quote:

A record of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration during the transition from the Last Glacial Maximum to the Holocene, obtained from the Dome Concordia, Antarctica, ice core, reveals that an increase of 76 parts per million by volume occurred over a period of 6000 years in four clearly distinguishable intervals. The close correlation between CO2 concentration and Antarctic temperature indicates that the Southern Ocean played an important role in causing the CO2 increase. However, the similarity of changes in CO2 concentration and variations of atmospheric methane concentration suggests that processes in the tropics and in the Northern Hemisphere, where the main sources for methane are located, also had substantial effects on atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

You realize that that is talking about the CO2 released as a RESULT of the rapid warming, right? Just checking.

pythagoras · 02-05-2010, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragment

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

But someone who doesn't get their hands dirty with the original studies from which the temperatures come from would never know how the data was modified, as it is NEVER discussed when such maps are displayed for general consumption.

Funny. When I read the GISTemp web pages, where the graph you're commenting on came from, it is quite clearly stated that "the urban and peri-urban (i.e., other than rural) stations are adjusted so that their long-term trend matches that of the mean of neighboring rural stations". So your upper-case NEVER is easily shown to be false, I invite you to retract it.

That is a GISS dataset site. That is not what I mean by "being displayed for general consumption".

JEROME DA GNOME · 02-06-2010, 12:54 AM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BARTHOLOMEW ROBERTS! WE LOVE YOU!

fragment · 02-06-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragment

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

These videos are by a JOURNALIST who has been lead down a path by ideological science with an agenda to push. What he has been lead to believe -- that his 4 drivers of insolation, greenhouse gases, particulate cooling, and positive feedback -- have been showed to accurately predict observed climate changes, is complete hogwash. None of these things, and no combination of these things, has been observed to dramatically change with the start and stop of each ice age, when the climate most dramatically changes.

It's really only the end of glaciations which change dramatically - going into glaciations tends to be more of a slow, interrupted slide. Glaciations and inter-glacials can also be punctuated by fairly rapid but short-lived changes. For the end of the most recent glaciation, you could look at Monnin et al (2001) (to pick the first google hit):

Quote:

A record of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration during the transition from the Last Glacial Maximum to the Holocene, obtained from the Dome Concordia, Antarctica, ice core, reveals that an increase of 76 parts per million by volume occurred over a period of 6000 years in four clearly distinguishable intervals. The close correlation between CO2 concentration and Antarctic temperature indicates that the Southern Ocean played an important role in causing the CO2 increase. However, the similarity of changes in CO2 concentration and variations of atmospheric methane concentration suggests that processes in the tropics and in the Northern Hemisphere, where the main sources for methane are located, also had substantial effects on atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

You realize that that is talking about the CO2 released as a RESULT of the rapid warming, right? Just checking.

Greenhouse gases are a feedback in glacial cycles. You claimed that no single or combination of 4 factors, including greenhouse gases and feedback, had been shown to change with glacial cycles. This is demonstrably false. Spare me your bait and switch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythagoras

That is a GISS dataset site. That is not what I mean by "being displayed for general consumption".

A well known temperature set on a publicly available web page that is the second google hit for "global temperature" is notwhat you mean as being displayed for public consumption? A page that is linked to from what is presently the top news story on the GISS site, a story featured prominently on the GISS home page? What on earth do you mean by "being displayed for general consumption"?

02-06-2010, 12:54 AM	#798795 / #30
JEROME DA GNOME THE JUGGERNAUT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Land of Pleasant Living Posts: 11,793	HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BARTHOLOMEW ROBERTS! WE LOVE YOU! __________________ What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious.

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