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Old 05-27-2009, 11:32 PM   #496210  /  #51
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Oh ffs.

Guys, get over yourselves.

Someone put this thread out of its misery.
I would close it, with your permission.
Well, I'd get another mod to do it
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:39 PM   #496216  /  #52
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I once stayed in a motel by that name (misery).

Despite which it had a four-star AAA rating.

The funniest thing was, as I was checking in, Mick Jagger was checking out.

As my aunt once said about Tolstoy novels, "He overburdens coincidence."

But then, as I'm turning away from the registration desk, the nerdy-looking little guy (he bore a slight resemblance to Tony Perkins) says, "Oh, you think that's a kick. Last week Stephen King was one of our guests. Though he insisted on registering under the name of Bachman, Dick Bachman...".

I've stayed in better; I've stayed in worse.

But I'll always remember the spiral slide they had for the deep end of the pool. Now that was cool.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:41 PM   #496221  /  #53
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Originally Posted by Steviepinhead View Post
I once stayed in a motel by that name (misery).

Despite which it had a four-star AAA rating.

The funniest thing was, as I was checking in, Mick Jagger was checking out.

As my aunt once said about Tolstoy novels, "He overburdens coincidence."

But then, as I'm turning away from the registration desk, the nerdy-looking little guy (he bore a slight resemblance to Tony Perkins) says, "Oh, you think that's a kick. Last week Stephen King was one of our guests. Though he insisted on registering under the name of Bachman, Dick Bachman...".

I've stayed in better; I've stayed in worse.

But I'll always remember the spiral slide they had for the deep end of the pool. Now that was cool.
I once had a job working for an architect who had to make a pool for this very rich woman. She wanted a spiral slide that went from her bedroom into the pool.

She also wanted it carved from powder blue marble to match her drapes.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:47 PM   #496229  /  #54
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Well, comparing the color of drapes would certainly heft the tone of the thread.

Drapes, thread, oh, nevermind!
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:49 PM   #496231  /  #55
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Well, comparing the color of drapes would certainly heft the tone of the thread.

Drapes, thread, oh, nevermind!
I thought it was weft?
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:54 PM   #496234  /  #56
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There's no one weft but us?
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:02 AM   #496245  /  #57
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Kicking a thread while it's down? That's really low.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:05 AM   #496248  /  #58
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It wouldn't be low if it was being sacrificed on the altar of poor taste though, only if it was on the ground.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:12 AM   #496259  /  #59
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I prove you wrong...
You didn't prove shit, moptop. You started a stupid thread and got called on it.

Why the fuck are you a mod again?
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:18 AM   #496263  /  #60
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Ah, well. We had the derail going pretty well there for a while...

"Moptop." Now that takes one back a bit: Ed Sullivan, Shea Stadium, 1964...
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:16 AM   #496317  /  #61
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"Moptop."
~devildevil~ has the docs to drop, but like internet magic they were removed "by request" (not that they can't reappear by equal magic). He knows what I'm talking about, and it isn't geriatric history. He is butthurt because this is a shit thread. He wanted to challenge me, and that is sometimes rather foolish. He should have let it slide.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:18 AM   #496319  /  #62
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changed thread rating from 1 to 2 stars.

ETA:

ETA2: That is really infrared
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:30 AM   #496325  /  #63
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X-Ray Fart with sound FX
Ok, that is worth another star. Serious farting guy is seriously farting.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:24 AM   #496439  /  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWE View Post
changed thread rating from 1 to 2 stars.

ETA:
YouTube - X-Ray Fart with sound FX

ETA2: That is really infrared
Was that one of the denizens of Uncommon Descent?
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:27 AM   #496444  /  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWE View Post
changed thread rating from 1 to 2 stars.

ETA:
YouTube - X-Ray Fart with sound FX

ETA2: That is really infrared
[pedant]If the warm air shows up dark in the supposedly infrared picture, why is the bare hand not also dark? Looks like a fake (albeit good one) to me.[/pedant]
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:28 AM   #496445  /  #66
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did you see the original flash with dembski's sound effects? I do believe that it's the same sound effect.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:29 AM   #496446  /  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWE View Post
changed thread rating from 1 to 2 stars.

ETA:
YouTube - X-Ray Fart with sound FX

ETA2: That is really infrared
[pedant]If the warm air shows up dark in the supposedly infrared picture, why is the bare hand not also dark? Looks like a fake (albeit good one) to me.[/pedant]
I have no idea. I like it to be real.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:51 AM   #496535  /  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWE View Post
changed thread rating from 1 to 2 stars.

ETA:
YouTube - X-Ray Fart with sound FX

ETA2: That is really infrared
[pedant]If the warm air shows up dark in the supposedly infrared picture, why is the bare hand not also dark? Looks like a fake (albeit good one) to me.[/pedant]
I have no idea. I like it to be real.
They should have shot it in SMELL-O-VISION.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:53 AM   #496537  /  #69
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They should have shot it in SMELL-O-VISION.
If volume is any indication, that would be a weapon of mass destruction in SMELL-O-VISION.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:32 AM   #496601  /  #70
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You can finally have the chance to prove Creationism in this thread, and to proclaim the glory of god. Also, you may use the Bible as evidence, as long as you can back it up.

I'm feeling generous. So let's begin!
Ah, creationism from the viewpoint of ancient minds is surely an easy house to tear down. And there we can see exposed its faulty foundation. It is a house built almost entirely on a supernatural foundation.

We are here with modern minds looking back with 20/20 hindsight. But we are also here to build on another foundation, which in good time will likewise be exposed as faulty. Our foundation is science.

OK, so I'll take up the matter of creation, provided I'm not expected to support the old version, which I've just above declared as built on a supernatural foundation. I'm not even sure exactly what supernatural means, whether it can even be defined, or has any meaning at all. So I would not try to defend it.

One other point. I also have no intention of supporting any ancient notions of god.

What I will do instead is project a concept of the world that can be interpreted. Most of the observable world (for us) seems governed as by immutable laws. At another scale where QM describes the world, things are not so certain. They are chaotic, unpredictable.


What can we make of the very tiny except that it seems to have a foot in two very different worlds. QM is predictable statistically. So it has that foot in a lawful world. But its other foot seems to stand on a magic world -- supernatural perhaps. I do not think so.

What I think instead is that every scale of every possible world is equally describable as governed by laws. Yet, laws that are not presently understood. But then, that is to be expected that I should think so. I'm the product of a modern worldview. I can't make sense of things by throwing chicken bones into a bowl or calling on archetypal gods and the like. Things make sense to me if they follow predictable patterns.

That is what humans really are -- pattern recognition machines. The patterns a modern mind sees (or can see if so inclined) is more complex and refined.

So to the point of creation. A world is really the product of a type of creation. It is created by the minds that perceive it. And no finite mind could ever perceive the entire world. The world will never make complete sense to anyone because it can't be perceived completely. Our modern perception may be more refined (relatively speaking), but not likely any more true than our ancient counterparts. Provided that context is accounted for.

Their perceptions were wrong by our standards, but the question we should ask is; by whose standards will our perceptions also be wrong? And like those who still keep alive the old ways, some in the far distant future will still keep alive our ways. Because some of our ways are powerful and useful, just as the old ways are to those who keep them. And just as we sometimes criticize those who keep the old ways alive, a time will come when those who cling to our current ways will be equally criticized.

So let's be honest and fair. When we speak of the world, we are not really saying very much. How much can we really say about a thing that is vastly beyond comprehension? What we are really speaking about is us. When we describe the world we are really describing the human mind. We use mathematics, science, logic and such to make sense of the world. But all these tools are the creation of human minds. Are we really so self-deluded that we can believe that our sense of the world (via tools of our own creation) can be trusted any more than any other mind in any other time? We certainly see more than the ancients, at least we see more from a certain point of view. But for everything gained their is something lost. So from their point of view, we would see much less. But even if we really did see more, is it enough? I think not very likely.

We are pattern recognition machines and map makers of those patterns. We are not mapping anything outside of the human mind. If some world exists outside of a mind, this has never been demonstrated in the least. If we have ever described anything other than than the human mind, this has never been demonstrated. Concepts of the world are nothing but the creations of a mind.

Ergo, creationism (my version) is a reasonable position.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:22 AM   #496693  /  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis View Post
You can finally have the chance to prove Creationism in this thread, and to proclaim the glory of god. Also, you may use the Bible as evidence, as long as you can back it up.

I'm feeling generous. So let's begin!
Ah, creationism from the viewpoint of ancient minds is surely an easy house to tear down. And there we can see exposed its faulty foundation. It is a house built almost entirely on a supernatural foundation.

We are here with modern minds looking back with 20/20 hindsight. But we are also here to build on another foundation, which in good time will likewise be exposed as faulty. Our foundation is science.

OK, so I'll take up the matter of creation, provided I'm not expected to support the old version, which I've just above declared as built on a supernatural foundation. I'm not even sure exactly what supernatural means, whether it can even be defined, or has any meaning at all. So I would not try to defend it.

One other point. I also have no intention of supporting any ancient notions of god.

What I will do instead is project a concept of the world that can be interpreted. Most of the observable world (for us) seems governed as by immutable laws. At another scale where QM describes the world, things are not so certain. They are chaotic, unpredictable.

What can we make of the very tiny except that it seems to have a foot in two very different worlds. QM is predictable statistically. So it has that foot in a lawful world. But its other foot seems to stand on a magic world -- supernatural perhaps. I do not think so.
why the classical bias?
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:46 AM   #496700  /  #72
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why the classical bias?
Perspective.

Where we are is a product of where we've been.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:01 PM   #496707  /  #73
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why the classical bias?
Perspective.

Where we are is a product of where we've been.

so your whole idea of law and chaos is based on classical bias.

Ok, take a lawful system, something really simple like a free swinging pendulum (not limited to one plane). replace the plumb with a magnet, north down, and place underneath the pendulum another magnet, north up. Since you're saying the (classical) universe is lawful as opposed to the quantum world being chaotic and unpredictable, what is the path the pendulum take as a function of time? It's a perfectly classical system, and the laws are perfectly deterministic.

and if you are suggesting that QM is chaotic, could you show me a QM system which displays exponential growth in perturbations due to the start conditions of the experiment?
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:42 PM   #496735  /  #74
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why the classical bias?
Perspective.

Where we are is a product of where we've been.

so your whole idea of law and chaos is based on classical bias.

Ok, take a lawful system, something really simple like a free swinging pendulum (not limited to one plane). replace the plumb with a magnet, north down, and place underneath the pendulum another magnet, north up. Since you're saying the (classical) universe is lawful as opposed to the quantum world being chaotic and unpredictable, what is the path the pendulum take as a function of time? It's a perfectly classical system, and the laws are perfectly deterministic.

and if you are suggesting that QM is chaotic, could you show me a QM system which displays exponential growth in perturbations due to the start conditions of the experiment?
Can you clear something up for me?

I've had various people allege that quantum effects don't scale up to cause perturbations in the classical world. But it seems to me that if radiation can cause mutations in DNA, then that would be one example where it could.

Who is right?
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:31 PM   #496770  /  #75
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You guys are taking a RexT post on science seriously.

Must be a slow day.
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