Dinosaur colouration - Page 2

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Just Birds? JUST BIRDS??!!

Birds are the crowning glory of what was once a pitiful scattering of feathery forerunners. May as well say you wish the totally ass-kicking Cassowary was a limp-wristed lizard.

You damn dirty lizard lover!

(Just fed the crows, awesome strutting don't-fuck-with-us attitudes.)

No, I know. It's really messin' with my head. I really am trying to see birds as kick-ass Velociraptors, but the image keeps going the other way. Imagine a mated pair of Velociraptors doing the Blue Footed Booby shuffle. It really is causing me quite a bit of anxiety.

borealis · 02-05-2010, 03:06 PM

DaveGodfrey · 02-05-2010, 03:09 PM

Actually many Ceratopsians may have had bristles rather like pigs, Psittacosaurus had tufts of long hair/protofeather-like structures on the tail. I'm not sure wheter nything is known from the larger species, but they may have had something similar.

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Well, not sayin' they couldn't rip your guts out. We had a pretty vicious Banty rooster when I was growing up. Still, he spent way more time strutting for the ladies than tearing into anybody.

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveGodfrey

Actually many Ceratopsians may have had bristles rather like pigs, Psittacosaurus had tufts of long hair/protofeather-like structures on the tail. I'm not sure wheter nything is known from the larger species, but they may have had something similar.

My impression is that at least the single filament proto-feather goes back to an Archosaur common to Dinosaur and Pterosaur (Ornithodira).

Now that's only vaguely in my head. I've been reading way more on Hominids than on Archosaurs, although I do have some papers on feather evolution in the stack next the hopper.

DaveGodfrey · 02-05-2010, 04:11 PM

Its possible, there's a late surviving heterodontosaur (Tianyulong), and the Psittacosaurus specimen, so they're present in the ornithischians. The other question is what are they for in the basal ones? Display? Thermoregulation? Certainly all the larger dinosaurs seem to have a habit of losing them.

Faid · 02-05-2010, 04:14 PM

Perhaps we need to think of the Mesozoic as the Age of the Birds.

borealis · 02-05-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveGodfrey

Its possible, there's a late surviving heterodontosaur (Tianyulong), and the Psittacosaurus specimen, so they're present in the ornithischians. The other question is what are they for in the basal ones? Display? Thermoregulation? Certainly all the larger dinosaurs seem to have a habit of losing them.

Which is too bad, really. Imagine a great huge shaggy emu-feathered herd of Apatosaurs. C'mon. You can't tell me mammoths are less impressive than elephants because they had integumental extrusions.

Faid · 02-05-2010, 04:34 PM

Unfortunately, we know that many dinosaurs did not have feathers (or, at least, they were not fully covered). Suropods and Ceratopsids weren't, and I believe that goes for some theropods like Carnotaurus. Oh, and hadrosaurs didn't have feathers, if that mummified fossil of whatsitsname was any indication.

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveGodfrey

Its possible, there's a late surviving heterodontosaur (Tianyulong), and the Psittacosaurus specimen, so they're present in the ornithischians. The other question is what are they for in the basal ones? Display? Thermoregulation? Certainly all the larger dinosaurs seem to have a habit of losing them.

Well, larger mammals tend to lose hair.

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faid

Unfortunately, we know that many dinosaurs did not have feathers (or, at least, they were not fully covered). Suropods and Ceratopsids weren't, and I believe that goes for some theropods like Carnotaurus. Oh, and hadrosaurs didn't have feathers, if that mummified fossil of whatsitsname was any indication.

Yeah, going by extant birds, you can have both feathers and scales on the same individual, but not in the same place. If you've got a skin fossil with scales, then that piece of skin did not have feathers.

borealis · 02-05-2010, 05:28 PM

Speaking of scaly feathers, anybody know what the waxy tips on cedar waxwings' (and some other birds - jungle fowl have them, I think) feathers is made of? because I don't think it's really 'wax'. Maybe it is. I can't seem to find any answers by searching, although I can now decontaminate an oiled penguin.

RAFH · 02-05-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Speaking of scaly feathers, anybody know what the waxy tips on cedar waxwings' (and some other birds - jungle fowl have them, I think) feathers is made of? because I don't think it's really 'wax'. Maybe it is. I can't seem to find any answers by searching, although I can now decontaminate an oiled penguin.

Just make sure you do it in the presence of a supervising penguin ... ...

... ... to avoid those nasty rumors.

borealis · 02-05-2010, 05:45 PM

eversbane · 02-05-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Speaking of scaly feathers, anybody know what the waxy tips on cedar waxwings' (and some other birds - jungle fowl have them, I think) feathers is made of? because I don't think it's really 'wax'. Maybe it is. I can't seem to find any answers by searching, although I can now decontaminate an oiled penguin.

Can you see anything here or here?

Steviepinhead · 02-05-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveF

Quote:

Originally Posted by eversbane

Rather disheartening, really - to think of dinosaurs as just birds.

Well, I don't think this kind of result really changes the perception of, for example, this guy:

I hope you won't be too bummed when they become capable of recreating the scale coloring, and it turns out that ceratopsies came in various shades of lavender, pink, and lime jello...!

borealis · 02-05-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eversbane

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Speaking of scaly feathers, anybody know what the waxy tips on cedar waxwings' (and some other birds - jungle fowl have them, I think) feathers is made of? because I don't think it's really 'wax'. Maybe it is. I can't seem to find any answers by searching, although I can now decontaminate an oiled penguin.

Can you see anything here or here?

Thanks. The second one is considerably more readable than the first. It says the tips are

Quote:

basically flattened extensions of the feather shaft composed of a dorsal, amorphous, pigmented layer over a more structured medullary area, with both layers surrounded by transparent cuticle.

Makes sense. I've seen the odd chicken or pheasant feather where the shaft has gone all enlarged or extended into the barbs - usually near the base of the feather.

Naraoia · 02-06-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faid

So these recreations are obsolete:

The females could still look like that

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

Just Birds? JUST BIRDS??!!

I love you

You tellin' me I'm JUST a bird??

JEROME DA GNOME · 02-06-2010, 12:56 AM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BARTHOLOMEW ROBERTS! WE LOVE YOU!

RAFH · 02-06-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steviepinhead

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveF

Quote:

Originally Posted by eversbane

Rather disheartening, really - to think of dinosaurs as just birds.

Well, I don't think this kind of result really changes the perception of, for example, this guy:

I hope you won't be too bummed when they become capable of recreating the scale coloring, and it turns out that ceratopsies came in various shades of lavender, pink, and lime jello...!

Mauve and burnt umber.

borealis · 02-06-2010, 02:24 AM

I can't find any photos of these bristles - or any article describing them. So did some ceratopsians have bristly skin all over or are we talkin' a few whiskers here, I wonder?

Quote:

The recent discovery of a Triceratops fossil that included skin impressions provided surprising information: The creature may have sported bristlelike structures. “The skin is unlike anything we’d expected,” says Bob Bakker, a paleontologist and a visiting curator at the Houston Museum of Natural Science.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feat...ssing_up_dinos

Ceph · 02-08-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borealis

I can't find any photos of these bristles - or any article describing them.

You mean besides the (in)fameous Psittacosaur specimen SMF R 4970?

Mayr, G., Peters, D. S. & Plodowski, G. 2002. Bristle-like integumentary structures at the tail of the horned dinosaur Psittacosaurus. Naturwissenschaften 89, 361-365.

I doubt we'll se any photos of the new Triceratops skin impressions until the paper is ready and published, and that might be a while.

But David Krentz has apparently seen pictures of the fossils and was inspired to paint this awesome Albertaceratops pair!
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachm...hmentid=176225

borealis · 02-09-2010, 12:20 AM

Yes, other than the Psittacosaurus. Specifically, the described Triceratops skin impression, which as you say isn't published yet. Dammit.

Krentz' painting is lovely.

02-05-2010, 04:14 PM	#798052 / #32
Faid just as bad Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,866	Perhaps we need to think of the Mesozoic as the Age of the Birds. __________________ If your thinking leads to results like herds of asexual unicellular elephants bobbing around the ocean under a Precambrian moon, it's clear your thinking has gone completely off the rails somewhere.

02-05-2010, 04:34 PM	#798080 / #34
Faid just as bad Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,866	Unfortunately, we know that many dinosaurs did not have feathers (or, at least, they were not fully covered). Suropods and Ceratopsids weren't, and I believe that goes for some theropods like Carnotaurus. Oh, and hadrosaurs didn't have feathers, if that mummified fossil of whatsitsname was any indication. __________________ If your thinking leads to results like herds of asexual unicellular elephants bobbing around the ocean under a Precambrian moon, it's clear your thinking has gone completely off the rails somewhere.

02-06-2010, 12:56 AM	#798804 / #44
JEROME DA GNOME THE JUGGERNAUT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Land of Pleasant Living Posts: 11,793	HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BARTHOLOMEW ROBERTS! WE LOVE YOU! __________________ What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious.

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02-05-2010, 03:06 PM	#797940 / #27
borealis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 8,212

02-05-2010, 03:09 PM	#797948 / #28
DaveGodfrey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 517	Actually many Ceratopsians may have had bristles rather like pigs, Psittacosaurus had tufts of long hair/protofeather-like structures on the tail. I'm not sure wheter nything is known from the larger species, but they may have had something similar.

02-05-2010, 04:11 PM	#798049 / #31
DaveGodfrey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 517	Its possible, there's a late surviving heterodontosaur (Tianyulong), and the Psittacosaurus specimen, so they're present in the ornithischians. The other question is what are they for in the basal ones? Display? Thermoregulation? Certainly all the larger dinosaurs seem to have a habit of losing them.

02-05-2010, 05:28 PM	#798153 / #37
borealis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 8,212	Speaking of scaly feathers, anybody know what the waxy tips on cedar waxwings' (and some other birds - jungle fowl have them, I think) feathers is made of? because I don't think it's really 'wax'. Maybe it is. I can't seem to find any answers by searching, although I can now decontaminate an oiled penguin.

02-05-2010, 05:45 PM	#798180 / #39
borealis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 8,212

02-09-2010, 12:20 AM	#802278 / #48
borealis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 8,212	Yes, other than the Psittacosaurus. Specifically, the described Triceratops skin impression, which as you say isn't published yet. Dammit. Krentz' painting is lovely.