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Science/Skepticism Dangerous meddling in things man was not meant to know.

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Old 02-05-2010, 10:25 PM   #798609  /  #1
JEROME DA GNOME
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Default IPCC Fails Again

Netherlands adds to UN climate report controversy

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The Netherlands has asked the UN climate change panel to explain an inaccurate claim in a landmark 2007 report that more than half the country was below sea level, the Dutch government said Friday.

According to the Dutch authorities, only 26 percent of the country is below sea level, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will be asked to account for its figures, environment ministry spokesman Trimo Vallaart told AFP.

The incident could cause further embarrassment for the IPCC, which recently admitted a claim in the same report that global warming could melt Himalayan glaciers by 2035 was wrong.

IPCC experts calculated that 55 percent of the Netherlands was below sea level by adding the area below sea level -- 26 percent -- to the area threatened by river flooding -- 29 percent -- Vallaart said.

World-Wide Scientific Consensus?
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:43 AM   #799041  /  #2
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On global warming, not every fucking fact you worthless propagandist.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:48 PM   #799121  /  #3
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:29 PM   #799150  /  #4
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
Sure, there is a consensus that IPCC got the percentage of the Netherlands that is below sea level wrong. What ramifications does a crusader for truth and accuracy like yourself estimate that this will have on predictions of future climate or CO2 sensitivity?
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:32 PM   #799154  /  #5
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
Jerole spells "its" with an apostrophe. Therefore, we can safely assume that everything he writes is wrong.

See what I did there?
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:59 PM   #799179  /  #6
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Honestly I don't blame JEROME, if it's comforting to think that industrial civilization is not going to end in five decades because someone forgot to dot every "i" then more power to him.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:14 PM   #799226  /  #7
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
Sure, there is a consensus that IPCC got the percentage of the Netherlands that is below sea level wrong. What ramifications does a crusader for truth and accuracy like yourself estimate that this will have on predictions of future climate or CO2 sensitivity?
It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:40 PM   #799248  /  #8
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
Sure, there is a consensus that IPCC got the percentage of the Netherlands that is below sea level wrong. What ramifications does a crusader for truth and accuracy like yourself estimate that this will have on predictions of future climate or CO2 sensitivity?
It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
What propaganda value do you see in an incorrect estimate of the portion of the Netherlands that is below sea level?
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:49 PM   #799331  /  #9
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There is a World-Wide Scientific Consensus that the IPCC gets it's facts wrong?
Sure, there is a consensus that IPCC got the percentage of the Netherlands that is below sea level wrong. What ramifications does a crusader for truth and accuracy like yourself estimate that this will have on predictions of future climate or CO2 sensitivity?
It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
Hmm, yes, lets immediately jump on the conspiracy-bandwagon too when we're at it!

Denialists are like IDists, grasping at straws at every opportunity.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:05 PM   #799632  /  #10
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Sure, there is a consensus that IPCC got the percentage of the Netherlands that is below sea level wrong. What ramifications does a crusader for truth and accuracy like yourself estimate that this will have on predictions of future climate or CO2 sensitivity?
It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
What propaganda value do you see in an incorrect estimate of the portion of the Netherlands that is below sea level?
It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:44 AM   #799758  /  #11
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What propaganda value do you see in an incorrect estimate of the portion of the Netherlands that is below sea level?
It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
Is that why they all ride bikes?

I'm not sure I understand your objection. Surely all of the Netherlands is below the North Sea isn't it? Are you holding the map the right way up?

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Old 02-07-2010, 02:31 AM   #799830  /  #12
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It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
What propaganda value do you see in an incorrect estimate of the portion of the Netherlands that is below sea level?
It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
solar powered cars.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:07 AM   #799938  /  #13
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It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
It does? Any evidence for that?
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:42 PM   #800014  /  #14
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It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
It does? Any evidence for that?
Ohh, you are going to pretend that AGW has not been used to scare and shock people into action.

I suppose that the other global flooding story used in other religions is also not used to scare and shock people into action.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:28 PM   #800029  /  #15
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It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
It does? Any evidence for that?
...[characteristic trolling nonresponse]....
Apparently not.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:36 PM   #800032  /  #16
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It does? Any evidence for that?
...[characteristic trolling nonresponse]....
Apparently not.
There are examples where scare tactics are used. This is a UK government ad:


I'm not sure that there's much evidence that these kinds of catastrophe framing approaches actually work.
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Old 02-07-2010, 02:30 PM   #800057  /  #17
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...[characteristic trolling nonresponse]....
Apparently not.
There are examples where scare tactics are used.
Oh, I don't doubt that. I guess my favorite example of dumb global warming scare tactics is the facepalmogenic movie "Day After Tomorrow". (Though I suspect the motivation there had more to do with selling movie tickets than any kind of "tactic" aimed at influencing public attitudes on policy and politics.)

My point is that Jerole is talking out his ass.

Again: in other news, Generalissimo Franco continues to be dead.
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:33 PM   #800116  /  #18
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It shows that the IPCC is not about science, it is about political propaganda.
What propaganda value do you see in an incorrect estimate of the portion of the Netherlands that is below sea level?
It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
Fair enough. Now what do you suppose would've been the effects of spreading the correct information that 26% (or whatever the exact fraction is) of the Netherlands is below sea level? Reassured feelings that their dikes will manage future sea level rises just fine and that they can continue to drive around as much as they please?
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:42 PM   #800125  /  #19
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Personally, now that I know the IPCC can't even be trusted to tell me how much of a country I have never been to is a sunken wasteland, I am trading my car in for a Hummer and burning coal in my backyard by the wheelbarrow-full to celebrate the glorious new future of fossil fuel energy ahead of us.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:58 PM   #800214  /  #20
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Fair enough. Now what do you suppose would've been the effects of spreading the correct information that 26% (or whatever the exact fraction is) of the Netherlands is below sea level? Reassured feelings that their dikes will manage future sea level rises just fine and that they can continue to drive around as much as they please?
Can you not see, they did not even need the correct percentage of below sea level area to characterize the threat in such dire circumstances. They could have used the correct data to make the same scary claims, yet they fudged the data to make the scary claim seem worse.

Why did they do that?
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:10 PM   #800219  /  #21
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Fair enough. Now what do you suppose would've been the effects of spreading the correct information that 26% (or whatever the exact fraction is) of the Netherlands is below sea level? Reassured feelings that their dikes will manage future sea level rises just fine and that they can continue to drive around as much as they please?
Can you not see, they did not even need the correct percentage of below sea level area to characterize the threat in such dire circumstances. They could have used the correct data to make the same scary claims, yet they fudged the data to make the scary claim seem worse.

Why did they do that?
I thought today was your birthday. Why are you wasting time trolling here?
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:11 PM   #800220  /  #22
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Because their straw was itching?
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:04 PM   #800313  /  #23
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It scares those people into believing that if they continue to drive automobiles that half their nation will be flooded.
It does? Any evidence for that?
Ohh, you are going to pretend that AGW has not been used to scare and shock people into action.
No, I'm asking you to back up your very specific claim about Dutch people being scared to drive or half their country will be flooded. Seems you can't, and are just making shit up.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:53 PM   #800368  /  #24
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It does? Any evidence for that?
Ohh, you are going to pretend that AGW has not been used to scare and shock people into action.
No, I'm asking you to back up your very specific claim about Dutch people being scared to drive or half their country will be flooded. Seems you can't, and are just making shit up.

I suppose that the other global flooding story used in other religions is also not used to scare and shock people into action.


.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:45 AM   #810937  /  #25
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Wouldn't know. In the tiny amount of religious instruction I got it was presented as a cute story for kids with animals and a singalong, with a final happy bit about how the big dude promised not to do it again and made a pretty rainbow.

But whatever it says in the big ol' book o' boring, and whatever people have used it for (which is practically everything), doesn't show anything about Dutch people being scared by a wrong figure or something. But you're so desperate to shore up your beliefs that you can't accept that a wrong figure that practically no-one had heard about might just be exactly that, aren't you?
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