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Old 04-21-2010, 03:20 PM   #901549  /  #1
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Default Hartnett's New Carmelian Cosmology -- the Big Bang is in Trouble

THE BIG BANG IS IN TROUBLE ...
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Today, the framework of Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker (FLRW) is used to describe the expansion of the cosmos. However, various anomalies present themselves, including the mysterious ‘dark’ matter and ‘dark’ energy, which are said to comprise about 22% and 74% of the current universe, respectively. But they are still unknown. Moreover we are told that the universe underwent a rapid expansion, and this is the reason the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) is so smooth and why we don’t find monopoles. There are also many other problems1 with what has now become the standard paradigm—the big bang origin and evolution of the universe. It all seems to be unravelling at the seams.2,3

Lerner, E.J. et al., An open letter to the scientific community, New Scientist 182(2448):20, 2004. Return to text.
Ratcliffe, H., The first crisis in cosmology conference, Progress in Physics 3:19–24, 2005. Return to text.
CARMELI TO THE RESCUE ...
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In recent years, a new five-dimensional cosmology has begun to challenge the standard model—Cosmological Special Relativity (CSR) and Cosmological General Relativity (CGR), developed by Moshe Carmeli.4–9
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In this paper I explore an extension of Carmelian cosmology. In itself, it has had success in describing the large-scale structure as seen in the type 1a supernovae distance modulus versus redshift data,10,11 and in fitting to the anomalous rotation curves of spiral galaxies.12 I propose that the only 5D spacetimevelocity metric that can be correct on both the local scale, reproducing the 4D spacetime metric of SR and GR, and on the cosmological scale, reproducing the 4D spacevelocity metric of CSR and CGR, is one that requires that enormous cosmological acceleration and accompanying time dilation has occurred, in the past, between Earth clocks and those in the rest of the universe. This means the universe is very young as measured by Earth clocks. It only has the appearance of great age because we are biased by the vast size of the universe. Based on the observed retardation of cosmological clocks in the distant universe, I postulate that during Creation Week, specifically on Day 4, Earth clocks ran extremely slowly compared to the rest of the universe.

This means that if the new theory is shown to fit the observations of the large-scale structure of the universe and is consistent with Einstein’s well-tested special relativity theory, then we are forced to conclude that the correct understanding of the expanding universe means that clocks on Earth once ran at much slower rates than clocks in the universe. As a result, we have a mechanism for light to travel to Earth from the most distant galaxies within the biblical timescale.
http://creation.com/a-5d-spherically...verse-is-young

OK ... let the mud and rotten tomatoes fly!
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:32 PM   #901606  /  #2
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Brave Sir Dave ignoring other threads.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:36 PM   #901621  /  #3
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Quit lying, Mike. You are cut from better cloth than Occam's Aftershave.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:40 PM   #901640  /  #4
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Dave,
If earth clocks "ran slower" then why do supernovae observations of chemical spectra and physical constants and isotopic decay systems match up with earth systems?

This argument just means God was a trickster and gave the world apparent age while the rest of the universe has actual age.

Also, what was the mechanism that allowed the earth clocks to run slower? Any guesses there?

Hartnett is using the tried and true method of "Argument by Assertion".
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:40 PM   #901642  /  #5
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why do we need Hartnett's Carmelian cosmology? What is wrong with Carmeli's Carmelian cosmology?
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:41 PM   #901648  /  #6
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Originally Posted by Dave Hawkins View Post
Quit lying, Mike.
It's not a lie Dave. You're flinging that word around far too much.

Prove that it might be an exaggerration.
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You are cut from better cloth than Occam's Aftershave.
And you know this how?
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:46 PM   #901672  /  #7
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So, now this god manipulates time so that our observations are 6 orders of magnitude out? Quite a capricious creature, this god.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:52 PM   #901686  /  #8
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Quit lying, Mike. You are cut from better cloth than Occam's Aftershave.
Well, you've started another thread and on the first two pages of this forum, you have six threads in your name, all of which have questions for you which remain unanswered, plus other threads in which you appear.

This is pretty much your MO. I mean, I can't really blame you, as people happily jump in to cleanly bat away your BS and endless unsupported assertions for each new thread that you start. So, you can keep the game going and people play along.

But really, don't call Mike a liar. You've been coming to these boards for years, and nothing ever really changes.

So Dave: why do the curves agree?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:29 PM   #901769  /  #9
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why do we need Hartnett's Carmelian cosmology? What is wrong with Carmeli's Carmelian cosmology?
Not sure yet. I ordered his book Monday. Maybe that will shed light on this question. (I also ordered Chaffin's Oklo article)
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:33 PM   #901774  /  #10
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Quit lying, Mike. You are cut from better cloth than Occam's Aftershave.
Well, you've started another thread and on the first two pages of this forum, you have six threads in your name, all of which have questions for you which remain unanswered, plus other threads in which you appear.
OK, Martin, if you're so concerned, then go to the thread where you think I should be answering these "unanswered" questions and point them out to me.

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This is pretty much your MO. I mean, I can't really blame you, as people happily jump in to cleanly bat away your BS and endless unsupported assertions for each new thread that you start. So, you can keep the game going and people play along.

But really, don't call Mike a liar. You've been coming to these boards for years, and nothing ever really changes.
It's a lie to say I have ignored my other threads.

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So Dave: why do the curves agree?
We may eventually get to that one of these days. It's not a simple question.

Now, if you'll quit trolling my thread, I'll appreciate it.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:38 PM   #901786  /  #11
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Hartnett appears to be assuming that dv/dt is constant wrt r, which is of course nonsense. That's basically where his model comes from. He's also wrong on the absence of blueshift in his model. IOW, it's Humphreys all over again, except even worse.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:40 PM   #901788  /  #12
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Not sure yet. I ordered his book Monday. Maybe that will shed light on this question. (I also ordered Chaffin's Oklo article)


Why don't you get back to us when you can actually defend the contention expressed in your thread title?

Meanwhile...

Bartlettian Cosmology: Spherical Earth model in trouble!

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:41 PM   #901792  /  #13
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It's a lie to say I have ignored my other threads.
You WERE ignoring other threads during the time taken to construct this thread.

Is that a lie?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:41 PM   #901795  /  #14
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So, now this god manipulates time so that our observations are 6 orders of magnitude out? Quite a capricious creature, this god.
You need all sorts of miracles to get the Big Bang going and to get life going and to account for sedimentary rock layers with no global flood and to create feathers from scales and on and on and on, so why get on my case for proposing a few miracles?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:43 PM   #901798  /  #15
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Hartnett appears to be assuming that dv/dt is constant wrt r, which is of course nonsense. That's basically where his model comes from. He's also wrong on the absence of blueshift in his model. IOW, it's Humphreys all over again, except even worse.
And what, may I ask, are your qualifications for being able to so quickly poop all over him?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:46 PM   #901807  /  #16
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...
So Dave: why do the curves agree?
We may eventually get to that one of these days. It's not a simple question.
Actually, it is a simple question.

And the answer's pretty simple, too.

Unless you insist that the obvious answer has to be wrong, and you're required to find some viable alternative answer ... and there isn't one.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:46 PM   #901808  /  #17
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And what, may I ask, are your qualifications for being able to so quickly poop all over him?
I have a degree in mathematical physics. Do you have any comments of substance?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:47 PM   #901815  /  #18
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... You need all sorts of miracles to get the Big Bang going and to get life going and to account for sedimentary rock layers with no global flood and to create feathers from scales and on and on and on, ...
Baseless assertion.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:48 PM   #901818  /  #19
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It's a lie to say I have ignored my other threads.
What about the burrows thread for one?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:51 PM   #901822  /  #20
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And what, may I ask, are your qualifications for being able to so quickly poop all over him?
I have a degree in mathematical physics. Do you have any comments of substance?
Out of interest, it seems to me, intuitively at least as far as GR goes, that the the argument in the OP could also be run to make the earth much 'older' than the rest of the universe?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:54 PM   #901825  /  #21
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So, now this god manipulates time so that our observations are 6 orders of magnitude out? Quite a capricious creature, this god.
You need all sorts of miracles to get the Big Bang going and to get life going and to account for sedimentary rock layers with no global flood and to create feathers from scales and on and on and on, so why get on my case for proposing a few miracles?
Actually, that isn't true. However, even if it was, the YEC model still does not account for the data, whereas scientific models do (in so far as we can say we know within given confidence levels). Having a massive time dilation (6 orders of magnitude remember) at any point during the earth's history would lead to some consillient evidence that it did, in fact, occur.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:55 PM   #901826  /  #22
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Quit lying, Mike. You are cut from better cloth than Occam's Aftershave.
Well, you've started another thread and on the first two pages of this forum, you have six threads in your name, all of which have questions for you which remain unanswered, plus other threads in which you appear.
OK, Martin, if you're so concerned, then go to the thread where you think I should be answering these "unanswered" questions and point them out to me.
You mean to the threads you're ignoring?

Quote:
Quote:
This is pretty much your MO. I mean, I can't really blame you, as people happily jump in to cleanly bat away your BS and endless unsupported assertions for each new thread that you start. So, you can keep the game going and people play along.

But really, don't call Mike a liar. You've been coming to these boards for years, and nothing ever really changes.
It's a lie to say I have ignored my other threads.
No, not really. You pretty much bail out of every one you start and then you start a new one. Then when those pile up, you disappear for weeks or months. I don't know that the disappearing for weeks or months is part of the ignoring stuff. Indeed we all have lives. But you basically never finish what you start... and you start a lot. That's fine, of course, but don't call Mike a liar. You have a shitload of threads you're ignoring.

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Quote:
So Dave: why do the curves agree?
We may eventually get to that one of these days. It's not a simple question.
I'll bet it isn't for you. In the meantime, you'll keep putting that day off. Ignoring the question.

Quote:
Now, if you'll quit trolling my thread, I'll appreciate it.
Trolling "your thread"? You called Mike PSS a liar ITT. You reap what you sow.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:56 PM   #901828  /  #23
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Not sure yet. I ordered his book Monday. Maybe that will shed light on this question. (I also ordered Chaffin's Oklo article)


Why don't you get back to us when you can actually defend the contention expressed in your thread title?

Meanwhile...

Bartlettian Cosmology: Spherical Earth model in trouble!

Wow—what a bizarre argument. Some people argue that the human population can continue to grow without limit. That is only possible if the earth is infinite in extent. Therefore, the earth must be infinite in extent. Therefore, it cannot be a spheroid, because such an object would not be infinite in extent. Now all we have to do is figure out how the earth can be flat and infinite in extent while still appearing to be round!

That shouldn't be too hard.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:57 PM   #901831  /  #24
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Originally Posted by Requiem for your dreams. View Post
Out of interest, it seems to me, intuitively at least as far as GR goes, that the the argument in the OP could also be run to make the earth much 'older' than the rest of the universe?
Like Humphreys, Harnett appears to be stuck on a (roughly) geocentric model, so yeah, take the 'centre' to be somewhere else, and it works out rather differently.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:08 PM   #901851  /  #25
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Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
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Not sure yet. I ordered his book Monday. Maybe that will shed light on this question. (I also ordered Chaffin's Oklo article)


Why don't you get back to us when you can actually defend the contention expressed in your thread title?

Meanwhile...

Bartlettian Cosmology: Spherical Earth model in trouble!

Wow—what a bizarre argument. Some people argue that the human population can continue to grow without limit. That is only possible if the earth is infinite in extent. Therefore, the earth must be infinite in extent. Therefore, it cannot be a spheroid, because such an object would not be infinite in extent. Now all we have to do is figure out how the earth can be flat and infinite in extent while still appearing to be round!

That shouldn't be too hard.
Some economists aren't exactly renowned for their prowess in arithmetic.
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