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Guy Debord Memorial Forum The Society of the Spectacle (Recall threads go here)

View Poll Results: Recall His Noodly Appendage?
Yes 27 14.52%
No 159 85.48%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2008, 09:30 AM   #305312  /  #1
mac_philo
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Default Recall His Noodly Appendage

HNA rejects the charter. The charter states that:

1)TR has rules. It refers to them four times, not including the reference to abstract "written rules." Anyone with basic literacy in quantificational logic knows that this document is strictly committed to the existence of TR's rules. The document describes the character of these rules, discusses how to pursue their spirit, and states that changes to the rules will never be retroactive. If the charter has authority, there are rules. This is not open for discussion. It can only be changed by changing the charter.

2)In "questionable situations" the rules may be non-mechanically applied.

HNA thinks:

1)TR has no rules.

2)TR staff may rule by fiat in questionable and non-questionable situations.

He is fundamentally opposed to the document constituting TR and is thus unfit for his position.

See: http://talkrational.org/showthread.p...002#post305002
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:51 AM   #305352  /  #2
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"RnRLulzCrowd Lead Member" ... is enough to convince me that any suggested changes coming from this member are not in the best interests of TalkRat.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:09 AM   #305358  /  #3
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TR is more than a document. I consider divergent opinions a good thing. Many situations are questionable. Writing a rule for every frickin controversy that comes about is pointless.

HNA appears to be sensible, unintrusive, respectful (usually), and able to tell it like it is without a lot of b.s. That's good enough for me. I voted No.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:11 AM   #305362  /  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
"RnRLulzCrowd Lead Member" ... is enough to convince me that any suggested changes coming from this member are not in the best interests of TalkRat.
So you're not even going to examine the issue?
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:21 AM   #305370  /  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Buttress View Post
TR is more than a document.
Quote:
I consider divergent opinions a good thing.
Quote:
Many situations are questionable.
Quote:
Writing a rule for every frickin controversy that comes about is pointless.
Platitudes.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:33 AM   #305379  /  #6
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I would only support a staff recall if the member had actually DONE something wrong, or showed a consistent pattern of being a dickhead. Merely holding ideas you don't agree with isn't a reason.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:49 AM   #305393  /  #7
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Default Recall His Noodly Appendage?

No I don't. Remind me?


*in before some other smartarse*
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:02 PM   #305404  /  #8
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Where are the rules?
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:25 PM   #305431  /  #9
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One of the references to 'rules' in the charter makes it explicitly clear that they are not 'rules' in the sense the word is usually used:

Quote:
Recognizing that written rules cannot cover all possible questionable situations and that the rules are more like firm guidelines rather than mechanical filters, in questionable situations moderators have the right to exercise judgment to moderate in a manner consistent with the spirit of the rules and the goals of Talk Rational, subject to the review procedures that are available.
This is one of the quotes mac himself provided on the cited thread, incidentally. An admittedly quick scan of the thread suggests that the issue in question was precisely whether or not there should be 'mechanistic filter' type rules governing signature images. HNA has been clear throughout in his opposition to precisely the type of rules which the charter explicitly rejects; see here for a particularly thorough statement of his position. The OP is simply equivocating.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:43 PM   #305447  /  #10
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HNA's comment seemed sarcastic to me.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:46 PM   #305451  /  #11
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Quoting Febble's reply in the other poll:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
Well, I certainly don't think that HNA or Oolon should step down. But I agree that there is an oddity about references to rules in the Charter, when we don't have any written rules.

Although not that much of an oddity, because the Charter was supposed to be a general document, and our policies (precedents, principles, guidlines, rules of thumb) keep evolving, which is, IMO, what they should do, as long as there are procedures by which an evolving rule can be arrested in its tracks, and reversed if necessary, as has happened on several occasions.

Staff randomly mutate the rules; the fittest are repeated, the crap ones are evoked revoked.

Works for me.
^^ This.

Voted no.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:47 PM   #305452  /  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nialler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
"RnRLulzCrowd Lead Member" ... is enough to convince me that any suggested changes coming from this member are not in the best interests of TalkRat.
So you're not even going to examine the issue?
This reminds me of something I heard on the Radio the other day. They were talking about the rerunning of the Lisbon Treaty referendum here in Ireland. I don't know whether it was just coincidence, but both of the people who they asked who said they voted no last time and would vote no again did so for shitty reasons: One said "I didn't understand the issues last time and I still don't, so I'm going to vote no" - wtf... why doesn't he find out? The other said "Well both the government and opposition parties support it, so they must be trying to hide something"

It's tragic really that democracy works like this.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:57 PM   #305463  /  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nialler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
"RnRLulzCrowd Lead Member" ... is enough to convince me that any suggested changes coming from this member are not in the best interests of TalkRat.
So you're not even going to examine the issue?
Here's a bit more if you're interested.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:09 PM   #305480  /  #14
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I saw nothing wrong with HNA's post regarding signatures. The precedent was set ages ago, "no bling". It has always been the case (pre- and post-charter) that we have a flexible approach to "rules" to avoid the rules lawyering & filibustering. If we get it wrong, then we revoke the decisions & change the precedent. There is nothing wrong with that model.

I vote no!
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:52 PM   #305544  /  #15
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Its a fricking discussion board not a national government. I don't see any great wrong being done here.

No.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:05 PM   #305564  /  #16
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Burn him at the stake. He's clearly trying to take away my civil rights.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:15 PM   #305584  /  #17
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He's a puerile little shitcock.

btw it's okay to insult users if you are a mod or an admin. there are guidelines that might hint otherwise but no formal rules.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:19 PM   #305588  /  #18
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Uh, halii: no it's not. Staff can have their stuff transferred to a... more fertile setting... just as anyone else might.

Now run along, you silly little girl...


(Joke, btw )
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:20 PM   #305592  /  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halii View Post
He's a puerile little shitcock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf
Little?

Last edited by Vicious Love; 12-19-2008 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:22 PM   #305595  /  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oolon Colluphid View Post
Uh, halii: no it's not. Staff can have their stuff transferred to a... more fertile setting... just as anyone else might.

Now run along, you silly little girl...


(Joke, btw )
I'm picturing the builder O'Reilly trying to flirt with Sybil.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:25 PM   #305602  /  #21
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same as the other one.

Quote:
this "british faggot" votes No. In plain fucking English. Good enough for you MP?

That said, Oolon did recently stick up for a Cliff Richard song which was of some concern regarding his judgement, so i did have to flip a coin


Seriously. The avatars issue is done out of consideration for those on dial up and following mucho early discussion resulting in a consensus that animated or large file AVs were no to be allowed. You know this.

As i understand the tech points even in hide tags they have to load up and the issue is still there for those not on HS. Now i know one or two phrased it as nicely as "fuck those on dial up" which shows clearly the the amount of consideration they feel should be shown for others here. And then as i read it, some got rather pissed off when told in no uncertain terms what was the score. That what admins do, thats what we dont pay them for, for making a judgement call for the better of the board as a whole not just those feeling put out becasue their pointless av has been hobbled. Tough shit as i see it.

There would have been no need for HNA or Oolon to put on the heavy boots if there was some consideration shown in the first place and following the "ask nicely" requests so to me the argument is bollocks. You cant force someone to have to get heavy and then bitch when they do.

Now you have issue with that? Tough shit as i see it. I think Oolon and HNA both are fine admins and like the no bullshit way they do it.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:27 PM   #305604  /  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halii View Post
He's a puerile little shitcock.

btw it's okay to insult users if you are a mod or an admin. there are guidelines that might hint otherwise but no formal rules.
yeah, one way to get around it is to post this afterwards:

Quote:
(Joke, btw )
Another rule of thumb is to make sure your insult sounds British. Calling someone a "fucking faggot" is much more likely to be edited than calling someone a "bleeding wanking tosser".
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:17 PM   #305675  /  #23
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Who is this mac philo person, and why does he want to recall good staff members?

Not just no but HELL no.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:21 PM   #305681  /  #24
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Oh yes- for those with short memories or possibly brain damage, both Oolon and HNA were on the committee which wrote the TR Charter.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:28 PM   #305688  /  #25
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This threads a waste of time.

No.
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